The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: Pathfinder on June 20, 2010, 07:28:49 AM
-
Now that I am among the ranks (however temporarily) of the employed again, and having sold off a few safe queens, I am looking seriously at the Kel-Tec RFB.
(http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/rfb/pic1.jpg)
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm)
No one locally carries it in stock, and I am concerned I will have to buy it to see it. So a bunch of questions for folks here:
Has anyone actually handled it and better yet fired it?
Are there any quality issues with the form, materials, fit, etc.?
How is the trigger?
What is the accuracy to 400 yards? The RFB does have a 18" barrel even though its overall length is 26.1". Benefits of a bullpup design.
What is the retail price in the stores?
Thanks all.
-
Path
Here is my honest advice. It looks cool. But, to quote Haz, let someone else do your beta testing. Buy an AK or an AR, or an M1-A or an FN or even a G-3. With these, you have plenty of cheap mags, spare parts and decades of proven perfomance. I'd buy the cool new whiz bang for the range, but for a SHTF rifle? I'll go with tried and true. Just my .02. YMMV.
FQ13
-
I would love to see a range report on this weapon. While disillusioned with the bullpup design, I still harbor a fondness for it and always hope it's deficiencies will be overcome with each new model.
The forward ejection does eliminate the problem of ejection right inches from your ear and might eliminate some of the extra noise there also. It also makes a truly ambidextrous (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous) design possible.
From an ascetic standpoint, the periodic ejection of a case or two from the front reminds me of the slow stool to the collection bag of someone with some type of intestinal bypass. I'll get used to it if the rest of the design measures up.
-
There is a great deal to read about here:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=499
-
Path
Here is my honest advice. It looks cool. But, to quote Haz, let someone else do your beta testing. Buy an AK or an AR, or an M1-A or an FN or even a G-3. With these, you have plenty of cheap mags, spare parts and decades of proven perfomance. I'd buy the cool new whiz bang for the range, but for a SHTF rifle? I'll go with tried and true. Just my .02. YMMV.
FQ13
I have the SHTF guns, and am not interested in any more 50-60 year old technologies, even if DSA builds them. As for mags, these use FAL mags, still fairly cheap on the market, so 50-year old technology does live on a little with this one. :-\
This is a 7.62x51 honest to goodness full-size rifle round, reports are that recoil is so well controlled through the bullpup design that muzzle rise in rapid fire is virtually non-existent.
I too have heard all of the evil things that bullpups represent (hence the trigger and quality questions), yet there are quite a few front-line world-wide - the French (!!!!!) use the design as their standard (FAMAS), as do the Brits with the re-engineered SA-80. The Israelis rolled a bullpup to its high-prestige brigades (Tavor or TAR-21). Even the AK has been bullpupped. There is a special issue from G*A that covers a large number of bullpups around the world.
So with everyone rolling one or another out, something has changed. I want to look at it and am (still) looking for something other than honest opinions. The KTOG is barely a step in the right direction, altho I have not gone through the whole site yet.
-
(I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous)
That's funny! Gain ambidexterity, only to become extremely monodextrous. Seriously, my wife is ambi and I'm jealous.
-
That's funny! Gain ambidexterity, only to become extremely monodextrous. Seriously, my wife is ambi and I'm jealous.
It just takes practice. As a lefty, you are forced to learn. I can, and do, do everything but write with my left hand. Eating, cuting, shooting etc. its what ever hand is there. The thing that prevents me from buying RH bolts is left eye dominance, not left handedness.
FQ13
-
I like the rifle on paper, too.
but it is a Kel-Tec...
-
Seems they are reporting a smooth trigger pull for this one. I want that confirmed by a few more sources..
There was also the procedure to clear a jam. Disassemble. I guess getting rid of the standard ejection port would cause some complications. Again, that was one person's report. I'd like to hear if that is the only procedure.
-
I handled one and the trigger felt ok dry firing. A little better than your average AR trigger. I liked it ok but decided it wasn't as solid feeling as I'd like for the $1800 firm they were asking. If I could get one around $1500 max I'd most likely own it.
-
$1800? :o Hell, you can shop like BillT for that kind of coin. ;D That's two nice ARs, three AKs or enough to buy an M1-A1 and a nice used pistol. All that for a kel-tec? Sorry, but no. Make that hell no.
FQ13
-
http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-RFB.htm
-
$1800? :o Hell, you can shop like BillT for that kind of coin. ;D That's two nice ARs, three AKs or enough to buy an M1-A1 and a nice used pistol. All that for a kel-tec? Sorry, but no. Make that hell no.
FQ13
Tell me about it. I've seen some on gunbroker go for around $1600 but I've pretty much decided if I was going to spend that to be a beta tester i'd rather just get a Springfield Scout and know it will work.
-
Evil and FUGLY.... 8)
$1800 :o Bushmaster, LWRC, LMT, Barrett, Arma-Lite, Daniel Defense, Rock River, DPMS, Sig, SCI, Geez,.....for that kinda "bling"?
wow
-
I know, Kel Tecs usually can be had for a decent deal but they're really trying to stick to the $1880 msrp here. there's really not anything to compare it to since nobody has a 7.62 nato rifle this compact but like fightingquaker13 said you could get 3 AK's and a decent auto pistol. You may be giving up something in ballistics but you can arm the entire family.
-
I know, Kel Tecs usually can be had for a decent deal but they're really trying to stick to the $1880 msrp here. there's really not anything to compare it to since nobody has a 7.62 nato rifle this compact but like fightingquaker13 said you could get 3 AK's and a decent auto pistol. You may be giving up something in ballistics but you can arm the entire family.
What part of "the family is already armed" is no one getting? ? ?
Price-wise the MSRP is well below the Magpul Masada Bushmaster Remington ACR and SCAR and other similar modern 5.56 rifles, and it is 7.62x51. Great car rifle, no folding stock to fiddle with when the rifle is needed.
Y'all are hung up on the price, and not thinking about the innovation and utility. And yes, I am watching prices on GB and GA to get lower than MSRP if I can.
Anyone fire one? ? ? ? ?
-
What part of "the family is already armed" is no one getting? ? ?
Price-wise the MSRP is well below the Magpul Masada Bushmaster Remington ACR and SCAR and other similar modern 5.56 rifles, and it is 7.62x51. Great car rifle, no folding stock to fiddle with when the rifle is needed.
Y'all are hung up on the price, and not thinking about the innovation and utility. And yes, I am watching prices on GB and GA to get lower than MSRP if I can.
Anyone fire one? ? ? ? ?
My whole family is armed as well. I see where you're coming from since I was seriously considering one myself. I love the size to power factor but just like when I hold a Kel-Tec pistol it's immediately apparent it isn't a 1911 (or even even a Glock for that matter) when I held the RFB it was immediately apparent it wasn't a M1A (or even a decent AR). I think once they get some decent numbers on the market and people get to shoot them one of two things will happen. Either they will prove to be revolutionary and hold their value or more likely they will prove to be like other Kel-Tecs, reasonably well built and reliable but nothing flashy or overly desirable from a collectors standpoint and the price point drops down around the $1100-$1200 mark where it probably should've been from the start. I give them credit for coming up with a new design and bringing it to a fairly saturated market. The tactical rifle market has really tapered off so even with the innovations they may encounter slow sales. When I looked at one and offered $1500 I was caught up in the moment of wanting a "shiny new toy" that no one else had. Now that I had time to think about it I'm glad my offer was laughed off and dismissed with an $1800 firm response.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to own one, I still would. It's just that in the same way the PLR-16 isn't a Sig 556 pistol the RFB isn't... well there isn't a comparable rifle on the market but what it is, is a Kel-Tec and I think the price is where it is over manufactured demand. I remember LCP's selling for $500 at gun shows and now you can pick them up for half that. the more I think about I feel like the beta testers of this rifle will pay a huge premium.
-
I'm wondering how available and cheap mags are for it.
-
I'm wondering how available and cheap mags are for it.
Mags are metric FAL, so they run $10-20 for 20-rounders. The 20-round standard is so far the only drawback to the RFB, but it's one I can live with. I did see a photo of an RFB with what was labeled a "Bren 30-round magazine" but so far I can't find any info on it.
-
Pretty much agree with Path's thoughts on this.
I need a new .308 semi and have always thought the bullpup was ideal except for the drawbacks I've mentioned elsewhere, poor trigger pull being the only critical one, and the RFB seems to have addressed it.
I don't imagine Kel-Tec will budge at all on price. They have seen sales of one of their 'hot products' drained by another manufacture who offers a very close copy. I would guess they will want to recoup as much of the development costs as possible before a competitive "copy" hits the market.
If that happens, two things will result. One, lower priice, and two, the design will have proven itself reliable and desirable enough to be copied.
-
Now that I am among the ranks (however temporarily) of the employed again, and having sold off a few safe queens, I am looking seriously at the Kel-Tec RFB.
(http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/rfb/pic1.jpg)
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm)
No one locally carries it in stock, and I am concerned I will have to buy it to see it. So a bunch of questions for folks here:
Has anyone actually handled it and better yet fired it?
Are there any quality issues with the form, materials, fit, etc.?
How is the trigger?
What is the accuracy to 400 yards? The RFB does have a 18" barrel even though its overall length is 26.1". Benefits of a bullpup design.
What is the retail price in the stores?
Thanks all.
Have you seen this ad?
http://www.knesekguns.com/commercial/product_info.php?products_id=693&cPath=172#googlebase
I don't know a thing about these folks, but the price seems right.
KTF
-
Have you seen this ad?
http://www.knesekguns.com/commercial/product_info.php?products_id=693&cPath=172#googlebase
I don't know a thing about these folks, but the price seems right.
KTF
No I had not seen that ad. And the price is more than right, holy cow!!!
They also carry the Sig 716, essentially a 7.62x51 version of the Sig 550. Damn! More financial planning please!!!! Sell more safe queens. Hell, sell the safe kings and eunuchs too!!!!! ;D
-
No I had not seen that ad. And the price is more than right, holy cow!!!
They also carry the Sig 716, essentially a 7.62x51 version of the Sig 550. Damn! More financial planning please!!!! Sell more safe queens. Hell, sell the safe kings and eunuchs too!!!!! ;D
Amen! Check out their other prices. DPMS sorticals (which is proving a great rifle) in .308 for $899, LCPs for $289, FN .308s for $900. All more than fair. That is book marked. Thanks kermit.
FQ13
-
$1202 at Buds....
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_151/products_id/59724
Its not in stock, but you could give them a call.
*Can I get half of the $$$ I just saved you ;)
-
$1202 at Buds....
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_151/products_id/59724
Its not in stock, but you could give them a call.
*Can I get half of the $$$ I just saved you ;)
I called Knesek Guns and told them Buds had it for $1202.
He asked me why I didn't buy it from Buds and I told him Buds was out of them.
He told me he sells them for $1102 when he is out of them. ;D ;D
-
I called Knesek Guns and told them Buds had it for $1202.
He asked me why I didn't buy it from Buds and I told him Buds was out of them.
He told me he sells them for $1102 when he is out of them. ;D ;D
Rimshot!
-
*Can I get half of the $$$ I just saved you ;)
No.
I called Knesek Guns and told them Buds had it for $1202.
He asked me why I didn't buy it from Buds and I told him Buds was out of them.
He told me he sells them for $1102 when he is out of them. ;D ;D
Damn, now that is funny!
I like this guy at Knesek's.