The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on September 01, 2010, 01:47:38 AM
-
Jaybet's post about a rifle got me to thinking (always a dagerous thing). If you were to reccomend a lever action, what would it be? .44 mag, .357, 45-70, 30-30, .308? Why? Let's assume we want a FUDD friendly multi-tasker. Good for the range, hunting and SD. Spare us the tacticool mods. We are talking Old School John Wayne. What would you choose and why? Winchester, Marlin, Rossi? What is your reccomendation to someone starting from scratch with say $500-$700 to burn? A deer rifle that will keep the kids off the front lawn (and heavier calibers for bears are also welcome). What do you buy that's not going to break the bank, but still do the job?
FQ13
-
Since you did not mention CAS I will go with a Marlin or Winchester in 30/30 Later model ones run around $450 -$500, and they will knock over anything you are likely to want or need to shoot.
-
Since you did not mention CAS I will go with a Marlin or Winchester in 30/30
All brands are welcome. Why a 30-30 over the others though? This is the question. Lets assume you didn't already have a stock o' ammo in caliber X, and didn't have an AK or AR ready to roll. Lets also assume you don't also have a bolt action 500 yard Bambi Whackinator 2010 (patent pending ;D) and actually wanted to hunt deer and deal with zombies, which do you choose and why?
FQ13
-
All brands are welcome. Why a 30-30 over the others though? This is the question. Lets assume you didn't already have a stock o' ammo in caliber X, and didn't have an AK or AR ready to roll. Lets also assume you don't also have a bolt action 500 yard Bambi Whackinator 2010 (patent pending ;D) and actually wanted to hunt deer and deal with zombies, which do you choose and why?
FQ13
Because you can find the ammo in the local hardware store and half the gas stations out here. I keep dreaming about a .45-70, but ammo availability is sketchy at best. You may be alright with a .308, but you can't expect to go into a gas station in Killdeer, ND and expect to find it where I know I'll be able to pick up a box if I forgot to pack a box before deer season
-
45 colt or 44 mag would also be a good choice.
-
45 colt or 44 mag would also be a good choice.
How about 30-06? Marlin, Winchester and Savage make levers in this round. How does that stack up for a multi-tasker?
FQ13
PS Salty, I know you are lurking. Yes, I regret selling that Model 94 to you, but I really hope you and the kids are enjoying it. :-\ ;D
-
For an all around deer and heavier game gun I would go with the 30-30. Yes it is only 100 - 150 yard gun but it will do it all, ammo is plentiful and it is well proven. I would probably go with a Marlin or pre-jap Winchester.
-
I'm not a whole lot into lever guns, but here are a few of them. Sorry about some of the pictures, Some were scan jobs off of older photos.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/WinchesterModel94.jpg)
A early 1970's Winchester Model 94 .30-30 I bought brand new off the rack at Sears in 1971. It was missing the hood on the front sight. I went back and forth with the salesman until the manager showed up and marked $25.00 off the price. I walked out the door with it for under $100.00. I really wanted it because the stock had nice Tiger Striping. I drove over to my local gun shop at the time and he installed a front sight hood while I waited for the whopping price of $3.50, and my new rifle was complete.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/WinchesterModel94Trapper45Colt.jpg)
Another Winchester Model 94. This one is a "Trapper" Model in .45 Colt. It has a 16" barrel. I got it from a distributor out of Reno, Nevada back when I had my FFL, (pre Oklahoma City). When it arrived it had a cracked stock, so back it went. They admitted several had gotten out of the factory that way. When I got the second one, same deal. Finally the third time was a charm and the gun was beautiful without a mark on it. They were so nice to credit my account for $75.00 for all of my trouble.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/MarlinGolden39-A.jpg)
A Marlin 39-A .22 LR. I had been wanting one for a long time so I finally gave in. Trouble was I called damn near every gun shop in Phoenix and no one had them. All kinds of stories about "limited production", and that sort of thing. I finally found a shop in town that had ONE. I drove over and paid retail price for it, ($405.00 at the time). I thought it was ridiculous for a .22, even though the action is like it was greased with butter. The other day Cabela's had one on their rack for well over $500.00 so I really can't complain. You never see them discounted. Even used ones are priced sky high.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/WinchesterModel88.jpg)
While not a true lever gun I picked up this Winchester Model 88 in .308 about 15 years ago from a "friend of a friend". He only wanted $250.00 for it so I couldn't resist. It only had 2 boxes of ammo through it. It was an early 60's manufacture gun. I got it complete with the old steel tube Weaver KV-60, 6 power scope with "Swing Away" mounts. (Remember those?) I was going to replace the glass and mounts, but after I shot it I decided not to mess with it because it shot great. They were more of a lever actuated bolt action, than they were a true lever gun, which is why they were chambered for high pressure rounds like the .308, .358, and .284 Winchester back then. Like many guns, the cost to manufacture took it off the market.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Marlin189444Magnum-1.jpg)
This is the only lever gun I own with a scope other than the Model 88. It's a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. I mounted a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9X in Leupold rings and bases. I originally bought it for a Wisconsin Black Bear hunt that never materialized. It's an accurate shooter, and I've got several .44 Magnum wheel guns to go along with it. It is an 80's model without any checkering on the stock.
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/Marlin45-70GuideGun.jpg)
Last is my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun. This is an earlier model that has the ported barrel. It really helps cut down on the recoil, but it really increases the muzzle blast! I haven't scoped it mostly because to me scoping a lever gun is a bit like putting a spoiler on a stagecoach. It just doesn't seem like it belongs. What I really like about the lever guns is the fun factor.
There are times when I get bored and just want to pull a trigger and have fun doing it without all of the worry about accuracy, group size, and all of the like. Mel and I will grab some lever actions and go out to our club range and have at the steel plates out at 200 yards. They really ring loud when you whack them with big, heavy bullets from lever guns. It's nice because we can both load the truck in about 5 minutes. No spotting scopes, bench rests, targets, and all the rest. Just guns and plenty of ammo. Can't beat that. Bill T.
-
"I'm not a whole lot into lever guns"? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who just spit coffee on his key board! ROFLMAO ;)
-
Rossi makes a sweet little lever action carbine in 45 Colt. I have no logic behind that recomendation. I got to shoot one recently and it was a hoot.
-
Rossi makes a sweet little lever action carbine in 45 Colt. I have no logic behind that recomendation. I got to shoot one recently and it was a hoot.
I've got the Rossi Puma 18inch ported .454 / 45 lever. Love it!
-
I've got the Rossi Puma 18inch ported .454 / 45 lever. Love it!
I saw one of those in Stainless Steel with a black, (Ebony?), stock and it looked good! Bill T.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMb62rIfqc&feature=player_embedded
Now this is a LEVER GUN! Bill T.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMb62rIfqc&feature=player_embedded
Now this is a LEVER GUN! Bill T.
Mine's a pretty good thumper with 325 grain bullets ;)
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Guns/100_0991.jpg)
-
Haz, did it come with that recoil pad installed? Bill T.
-
Yep. I changed the sights and removed the safety (put the rear sight there), but the recoil pad is standard (and needed!)
-
30/30 will always be around, especially in the back country towns, we'll "assume" one has to run to if the SHTF.
Love the 45Colt round, and in a lever action is very good. But 30/30 ammo is actually cheaper, than others listed.
Thanks billt, glad to see your not a "lever" gun fan.... ::)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1491.jpg)
Only pic I had of my Model 94, 30/30 Winchester A.E. (pre-japanese), and 1891 Mauser. NO TOES! ::)
-
I got a .44 magnum Trapper model so I would have ammo compatability with my Contender pistol. If I didn't want a pistol caliber I would get a 30/30 instead. They come in a trapper model too but I would stick with the 20" barrel for rifle calibers.
-
Got to agree with whats been said about 30-30. Good all round cartridge and available EVERYWHERE. I have Marlin and Winchester. Marlin is my choice when I'm in the woods.
-
in lever action rifles I have 3 .22rf (2 Marlin 39 and a Winchester 9422)
A 1866 Uberti in .38 Special
a 1872 Uberti in .357 mag
a Winchester 94 Buffalo Bill Commemorative in 30-30
and a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70.
I used to have a Rossi 92 in .357 but sold it to a friend in a moment of weakness. I figure I'll be able to find ammo for at least some of them in a SHTF scenario ;D ;D
sorry but no pictures(yet)
-
I think they make pretty formidable weapons, SHTF guns, hunting and fun guns.
I don't have an extensive collection
Henry H001 .22 LR
Winchester 1873 .45 Colt
Winchester 1892 .45 Colt
Winchester 1894 .30-30
and I want a Marlin 1895 SBL .45-70
-
I had a Winchester model 94 trapper in 44 mag once upon a time. Very nice to have around, and probably one of the most fun guns to shoot. Shooting specials through it was like a grown ups pop gun.
-
another thing to remember about a lever gun is you can 'top off' at any time.
-
another thing to remember about a lever gun is you can 'top off' at any time.
I've always wanted a Savage 99 because it could be had with a detachable magazine for quick reloads.
Until it was mentioned here, I had not thought of the "reload on the fly" capability of tube magazine lever guns.
Good point and good feature.
-
I've always wanted a Savage 99 because it could be had with a detachable magazine for quick reloads.
Until it was mentioned here, I had not thought of the "reload on the fly" capability of tube magazine lever guns.
Good point and good feature.
A Magazine is something you can lose, drop or have to reload BEFORE you can fight.
-
Hi;
Ooooo , so many toys and never enough money !
-
A Magazine is something you can lose, drop or have to reload BEFORE you can fight.
Yep, but you don't have that problem with clips. ;) Seriously, it is a tough call. Instant reload, versus something that can go wrong or get lost. With a lever, I go with the Cat on this one. Tubes for my levers, clips for the SKS, MAGS for the AR and beer for the horses. ;D
FQ13
-
So, if I were to be in the market for a 336 at a flea market/gun show I'm attending tomorrow is there anything to look for that might typically be broken/worn?
Any pointers are appreciated.
-
So, if I were to be in the market for a 336 at a flea market/gun show I'm attending tomorrow is there anything to look for that might typically be broken/worn?
Any pointers are appreciated.
The loading port cover (should not be too slack), the entire lever action should be smooth, not chunky with harder spots in cycling, should also not be too easy or feel to free to cycle, you'll know the difference.
The safeties, inspect the action closely, alot of things are happening inside the receiver, in a short motion.
Otherwise, its a visual thing and of course is the stock beat up,..etc,... try to bring a small flashlight or white napkin and take a quick glance down the barrel, with the light or napkin in the receiver end, action open,...Full of hairballs? Oil? Dirt? How's the rifling?
Give it a good once over, and let us know if you find a nice one. They are out there at a fair price.
FWIW, my humble .02 cents.. ;D
-
The loading port cover (should not be too slack), the entire lever action should be smooth, not chunky with harder spots in cycling, should also not be too easy or feel to free to cycle, you'll know the difference.
The safeties, inspect the action closely, alot of things are happening inside the receiver, in a short motion.
Otherwise, its a visual thing and of course is the stock beat up,..etc,... try to bring a small flashlight or white napkin and take a quick glance down the barrel, with the light or napkin in the receiver end, action open,...Full of hairballs? Oil? Dirt? How's the rifling?
Give it a good once over, and let us know if you find a nice one. They are out there at a fair price.
FWIW, my humble .02 cents.. ;D
Its worth more than $.02. What's also worth more than the asking price is a bore light. I'm not talking pro-grade here, just the doo-hickeys you srcew on to a mini mag. The few bucks you pay for one at a gun show will pay for itself the first time you look at a rifle and say, "Thanks but no". Just sayin'
FQ13
-
You can pick up a bore light at wally world for @$5. Worth the investment
-
You can pick up a bore light at wally world for @$5. Worth the investment
Except I always forget it when I go to a gun show. ::)
-
I have always been fond of Marlin 336 converted to .38-55, but if you are worried about ammo that would not be a good choice. .38-55 is a great round with bigger bullets that .30-30 and can be shot with BP or smokeless. If ammo is a concern then I would go with a .357 or .44 mag and carry a companion pistol in the same caliber. Zombies, deer, or bad guys would fall to any of these rounds.
-
Love my hartford in .45 lc same cal as my six gun. Not sure how it's gunna do on white tail but the thing is dead on 100yds and closer.
-
Thanks for the input guys but I was on the road to the show early this morning so didn't read the responses until I returned tonight. No bore light just did the best I could. Using a flashlight when I got home the barrel looks good. The lever action seems smooth and was pretty much the same as others I looked at. The loading port cover is firm.
Grandson and I probably looked at at least 20 336 in 30/30, lowest price was $275 and it had some kind of weird green stock that had some damage. Most were in the $300-350 range with some higher. One of the newest and best was a camoed version with scope from 2002, $300 firm, my limit was $275.
On the way out we stopped at one last place and the guy wanted to deal. He had an older one with scope. The stock isn't beat up but really needs to be refinished. Scope has a ding in it but works fine. His price was $325, I offered $250 and he took it.
Is there anything I should be aware of when removing the stock?
-
Thanks for the input guys but I was on the road to the show early this morning so didn't read the responses until I returned tonight. No bore light just did the best I could. Using a flashlight when I got home the barrel looks good. The lever action seems smooth and was pretty much the same as others I looked at. The loading port cover is firm.
Grandson and I probably looked at at least 20 336 in 30/30, lowest price was $275 and it had some kind of weird green stock that had some damage. Most were in the $300-350 range with some higher. One of the newest and best was a camoed version with scope from 2002, $300 firm, my limit was $275.
On the way out we stopped at one last place and the guy wanted to deal. He had an older one with scope. The stock isn't beat up but really needs to be refinished. Scope has a ding in it but works fine. His price was $325, I offered $250 and he took it.
Is there anything I should be aware of when removing the stock?
Don't lose the screws ;)
Seriously, sounds like ya got a good deal.
I have not taken the stocks off a 336 but I have on other levers and didn't find anything strange.
-
Congrats hollandm, no big surprises removing the stock, you'll find all kinds of new unseen parts, after the stock is off, of lint, dustbunnies, old caked on oil, but it will all clean up fine.
Than:
You can start a new thread and POST SOME PICS!!!!!!! ;D
-
Congrats hollandm, no big surprises removing the stock, you'll find all kinds of new unseen parts, after the stock is off, of lint, dustbunnies, old caked on oil, but it will all clean up fine.
Than:
You can start a new thread and POST SOME PICS!!!!!!! ;D
Seconded! A little photo journal of the steps (including especially screwups) would be useful to lots of us. Thanks in advance.
FQ13
-
Brownell's have excellent schematics for free, very helpful in a pinch.
-
Brownell's have excellent schematics for free, very helpful in a pinch.
+1
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/sid=774/schematicsdetail/336
-
Stock removal was easy. Removing the forearm was not. The front band holding the barrel and the mag tube was 'glued' on with years of oil... But I finally got it off. Stripped the wood today, just ordinary walnut but looks pretty good.
-
PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Before and after!!!
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p78/hazcater/Guns/youforgottopostpicturesofyourweapon.jpg)
;D
-
As much as I love my Guide Gun in .45-70, ammo is expensive for it. However it will bring down any creature on the planet with the right load. If you're gonna be hunting bears, moose, or elephants, that's the lever gun I'd get. For an all around defense/hunting rifle like what's mentioned in the OP, The .44 Mag or .357 are good choices. You can take down man, deer, elk, or most any North American game with the .44, and the .357 will easily handle deer or humans, and you can get hot loads that would take care of a bear.. My choice out of the two would be the .357, due to a bit more easily available ammo. Also with the .357, you can use cheaper .38 Special rounds for plinking. One could argue that you could use .44 Specials in the .44 mag, but from what I've seen of .44 Special prices, that wouldn't make any difference. I'd get the .357. I'm personally trying to decide whether I want a Model 92 style, or one of the Marlin 1894's. Leaning toward the Marlin for a supposedly stronger action, but the '92 looks better.
-
Walter, the action on my '92 handles .454 Casuall. How much stronger do ya need?
-
Well I havent read everyones relies here but I would like to just chime in on this a little. You know 30-30 is a good all around lever-action, but I am going to have to come down to a rifle and caliber that is near and dear to my heart.
I got a .357 mag Puma 92. I really like the idea of .357 in a Lever Action. It kinda can do it all as well. You .38 to train with and keep recoil low to help with learning to run the rifle's trigger. And then go with a .357 UMC soft point ammo to take down pretty much any animal out to about 100 yards.
Then this is my favorite, the federal 130gr Hydrashok self defense ammo. This is pretty much, in my opinion and I do have some experience with this, one of the best if not the best (non semi-auto\battle rifle) and most underrated CQB weapon out there. From room clearing in the house to hunkering down in the designated room and holding whomever off till police arrive, to property defense during a time of social dislocation (thanks Mr. Bane) this can flat out get it done. It is almost like a pump shotgun in the sense you know as long as you rack the lever it will fire. Plus the 92 Clone that I own is not very long, I put it right up there with any 16inch barreled AR. And I feel alot more confident with a one shot knock down at close range say 10 feet with the .357 hollow point over the .556. Call me crazy I know.
Now take all this with me never shooting a .44 mag lever action. I have heard stories or lawmen carrying one of these in the trunk of their car as their go to rifle before m4 and such became a mainstay. I believe I've linked it before here but Sheriff Jim Wilson wrote an article about this in Guns and Ammo. Who knows for how many years lawmen in Texas and other places carried a Lever Action rifle. So I believe it is a tried and true self defense rifle.
-
Walter, the action on my '92 handles .454 Casuall. How much stronger do ya need?
How does it handle the .454 Formal?
;D ;D ;D nYuck nYuck nYuck ;D ;D ;D
-
Ksail,
Why aren't you at work?!
;D
Good ta see ya on the board, Dude!
-
How does it handle the .454 Formal?
;D ;D ;D nYuck nYuck nYuck ;D ;D ;D
HEY! I resemble that remark!
It's the spell checkers fault! (that's my story and I'm stickin to it! ) ;)
;D
-
HEY! I resemble that remark!
;D
Yes...the Formally Casual Cat...........O' Great and felinious maker and drinker of beer and Hazaritas. ;D
And for the record, the spell-checker don't always catch 'em. My sausage fingers hit more keys than needed and I get to laughing at some of the things that show up on screen myself. And, sometimes we just have to make up our own words and such. ;)
-
And for the record, the spell-checker don't always catch 'em. My sausage fingers hit more keys than needed and I get to laughing at some of the things that show up on screen myself. And, sometimes we just have to make up our own words and such. ;)
Don't sweat it Peg. They might misunderestimate you or try to refudiate you, but we still love ya. ;D
FQ13
-
Don't sweat it Peg. They might misunderestimate you or try to refudiate you, but we still love ya. ;D
FQ13
I thought I got refudiated once....but it was just that my Palination levels were off just a bit. ;) ;D
-
Ksail,
Why aren't you at work?!
;D
Good ta see ya on the board, Dude!
Shhh Haz!!! I'm in my ghillie suit laying in the trees oustide.
-
Who you talking to Haz?
-
Who you talking to Haz?
Don't know, can't see him. (he be hidin') ;)
;D
-
Don't know, can't see him. (he be hidin') ;)
;D
sniff...sniff... Does anyone else smell burlap?
-
(http://www.wildwestguns.com/images/bigcopilotred1.jpg)
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/01/wanted_dead_or_.html (http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/01/wanted_dead_or_.html)
-
Those are some damn nice lever guns! Bill T.