The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: BKVic on July 21, 2011, 06:36:17 AM
-
Ive been listening to Micheal for about a year now and met him at this years NRA convention in Pitt. I lurk in the forums every now and then but have never really had a reason to post. Id like to share a few links with you all about a bad stop that was recorded on a dash cam by the Canton Police in June 2011. More info can be found on the OFCC website.
BKVic
http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994&start=270 (http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994&start=270)
-
Beat me to the post, BKVic......
Ohio law requires a CCH (Concealed Carry, Handgun) permit to"promptly" inform any Officer of the Law with whom they come in contact that they are armed.
I was cautioned in class that the best way to do that is not to loudly proclaim "I've got a gun" when the officer comes close.
I have had 3 occasions where I needed to let an officer know the situation. Each time I said "Officer, I have a CCH permit and I am required by law to inform you that I am carrying a weapon". I have never had any problems and once I felt that I may have been given preferential treatment. I was pulled over for 50 in a 35 mph zone and was let off with a warning. I also had an NRA license plate and a FOP bumper sticker. The other two occasions where both minor traffic incidents where I was lightly rear ended and the officer arrived on the scene while we were looking at our bumpers.
I feel that one of the most dangerous situations for a police officer is a "routine" traffic stop and I know they are trained to do what it takes to take "command" of the encounter. However, the police need to be aware that their actions in that regard can prevent a citizen from complying with the law.
I tend to think that this officer was a bit angry and embarrassed that he allowed an armed "subject" to remain unattended for as long as he did and decided to blame the citizen and take his anger out upon him. The fact that the officers were able to walk about, illegally search the car and otherwise go about their business with no threat from the CCH holder plainly demonstrates he had no illegal intent.
Folks in Ohio have been working hard to have their carry laws "fixed" since it was passed. One requirement that was eliminated was that of having your weapon in plain sight when in a vehicle. Not only did it require additional and unnecessary handling of a loaded weapon in cramped positions, it was not clear when you were in or out of the vehicle...was one foot in and one foot out when you had to switch? Could you hide the weapon while still seated just be for getting out? Did you need to expose your weapon outside the car just before entering? Perhaps the biggest flaw in the law is that it applied to motorcycles. There were numerous calls of "Man With a Gun" and ON A MOTORCYCLE!!! before this portion of the law was rewritten.
-
The victim tried several times to state that he was armed but the officer kept shouting him down. Later in the tape officer says he should have 'executed' the victim. This officer does not need fired he needs a felony conviction and prison time!
-
There is so much wrong with this "encounter", I don't know where to begin.
As most of you know, I am a former LEO, and am appalled at the content of this video.
First, where was the probable cause necessary for the officer to search the rear seat on this vehicle?
Second, why the HELL did he he conduct a search with a subject still in the car? Much as I hate to say it, if he had gotten shot during this search he'd have had it coming.
Third, the video clearly showed the driver attempting to inform Officer Dickhead that he had a permit. Officer Dickhead, however, seemed way too busy throwing his weight around to be bothered.
AT THE VERY LEAST, the officer who conducted the search of the car's rear seat should revisit the Police Academy (Special Education Division) before he is allowed back on the street. His tactics will one day get him (and possibly somebody else) seriously hurt or killed.
AT THE VERY LEAST, Officer Dickhead should be forced to undergo Anger Management Training, and upon successful completion, be relieved of his badge, weapon, and any other symbol of authority. After that, he should be given a good, old-fashioned ass kicking, just on general principles. This walking, talking rectum is a disgrace to the uniform, and should be unemployed TODAY, before he has the opportunity to seriously hurt or kill somebody. Sadly, the man is a ticking time bomb, and it's less a matter of if, than of when.
These guys are among the minority that give a bad name to all the good, hard-working men and women who are out there trying to protect and serve, and as a former LEO, their reprehensible, badge-heavy behavior royally pisses me off.
-
AT THE VERY LEAST, the officer who conducted the search of the car's rear seat should revisit the Police Academy (Special Education Division) before he is allowed back on the street. His tactics will one day get him (and possibly somebody else) seriously hurt or killed.
Blue "hockey helmets" ?
-
I knew three cops in three different Michigan cities well enough that we had dinner together a few times. All three told me the same thing almost verbatim (as though its what they're taught). "If your in a shi#y mood, and you think your going to do something you might get in trouble for just turn off the blue lights! When you turn off the lights, the dash camera turns off." Followed by a big sh!t eating grin.
Anyone wanna give odds this will become a training video for cops to "turn off the blue lights"?
-
I knew three cops in three different Michigan cities well enough that we had dinner together a few times. All three told me the same thing almost verbatim (as though its what they're taught). "If your in a shi#y mood, and you think your going to do something you might get in trouble for just turn off the blue lights! When you turn off the lights, the dash camera turns off." Followed by a big sh!t eating grin.
Anyone wanna give odds this will become a training video for cops to "turn off the blue lights"?
It is very discouraging to hear that attitude might be common among LEOs.
For some time now I've seen a "bad side" to law enforcement. I've seen incidents where officers will issue a citation to an innocent civilian to cover for an intoxicated off duty officer in a traffic accident and other examples of this type of behavior.
I don't watch any of the "COP" shows any more because that attitude becomes evident. Even watching a officer run down a fleeing suspect after that suspect assaulted and robbed someone, the officer clearly expresses the belief that the real wrong done was that the bad guy tried to get away rather than his actual offense.
Yeah..I do know the police have a tough job and that it can take a real toll on one's outlook and perception of others, in addition to the real risks involved, but their "Us against everyone else" attitude becomes evident in cases like the stop in the video.
Combine the "Us" attitude and the need to dominate a situation and you've got a thin line between proper conduct for officers and jack booted thugs.
I've not been involved with law enforcement so I don't have any solutions. While I do understand that we hire them to do a tough and dangerous job, I don't feel we can allow them to act outside the "box".
-
We had a Police officer here shot and killed by the cousin of Olympic skier Bodie Miller. The initial reaction was "What a pity, this upstanding public servant lost his life".
However, when the facts came out, it was a case of a teen pushed to far by a badge heavy prick.
No one condones shooting the A hole, but they don't hold any memorials for him either.
It's one case where ," He worked for what he got" is no compliment.
(A passing motorist who saw what happened took the officers pistol and killed the teen. He is now serving a sentence for criminal threatening, also, it was only the circumstances that kept him from being charged as a felon in possession of a fire arm. )
-
Hope the officer has gone to anger managament... That was completely uncalled for and unprofessional.
-
Hope the officer has gone to anger managament... That was completely uncalled for and unprofessional.
+1
Regardless....A Jack Booted Thug mentality, has no place in professional law enforcement. Allowing that length of time to go by without O2, or back-up, talking to the driver is a failure on LEO's part. Including a search with an occupant still in the vehicle.
Many mistakes by driver and Officer's.
Communication of threats by the Officer, as well as an ER visit for handcuffed in anger mentality, is just wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they found no contraband, driver was licensed, the other two were shady, but were told to leave after they finally found "something"....
What is the status?
What are the charges? Failure to inform? A good lawyer will have a field day with the dash cam...
What about "take two steps back and put 10 rds. in you",...."my partner will make a great witness"......A good lawyer will have a field day with that also...
Where's the ACLU?
Nevermind,......
-
So, guys like that...let's say Obama or some other liberal/socialist/marxist politician threatens to layoff officers or cut their pay unless they, wink-wink & nudge-nudge, play along....what's a guy like this going to do? Stand for principles and the Constitution or sell out for buck?
Not that this would be the only profession to sell out...just that citizens expect them to be towards the top of upstanding and patriotic.
So what would this guy do? Trample the Constitution or stand up?
Trick question.
-
So, guys like that...let's say Obama or some other liberal/socialist/marxist politician threatens to layoff officers or cut their pay unless they, wink-wink & nudge-nudge, play along....what's a guy like this going to do? Stand for principles and the Constitution or sell out for buck?
Not that this would be the only profession to sell out...just that citizens expect them to be towards the top of upstanding and patriotic.
So what would this guy do? Trample the Constitution or stand up?
Trick question.
97% of the people will sell out in one way or another and take the mark of the beast - sorry, wrong platform - do what they have to do to get by and maybe even go from the proles to the Outer Party. Or, dare I dream it? get into the Inner Party. ;)
-
CPD posted on their Facebook account how totally embarrassed they were. They went on to explain that Officer Azzhat had been relieved of duty and that an Internal Affairs investigation had been ordered. They stated that there is no place for this kind of activity in their police department. They said his return to duty would be dependant on IA's findings.
And then their Facebook page was taken down.
I'm told it has been re-activated, but don't know the status of the apology.
Saw on another thread that due to the "two-sizes-too-small" nature of Officer Azzhat's uniform shirt, steroid abuse is suspected. "Roid" rage is a known reality--not an excuse, but a reality.
Sometimes a tin badge confers more authority than is justified. Badge abuse is an unfortunately common occurance.
And I was taught to respect the cops, from a very young age. It's only been in my more mature years that my opinion of many of them has totally tanked.
-
+1 on Crusaders Post.
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/daniel-zimmerman/one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other/#more-56301
A few weeks back, we highlighted the courteous and professional conduct of officer Matt Lyons. Well, for each yin there’s a yang. For every good there’s a bad. For every Jedi there’s…some guy wearing black on the dark side. Now, via snowflakesinhell.com, comes this surefire first ballot hall-of-famer from Canton, Ohio. Granted, the Lyons and Canton situations occurred under drastically different circumstances. This sorry display happened at night in an evidently questionable part of town. Still, it’s hard to decide what’s most disturbing about the dashcam video . . .
Is it the generally abusive demeanor? The illegal search of the car? The lack of Miranda rights given to the driver? Maybe it’s the promise of future harassment. Oooh. Oooh. I know. It’s probably the regret the officer expresses that he didn’t “execute” the driver by emptying his Glock into him. Canton PD Chief Dean McKimm has relieved the offending cop of his duties pending action by internal affairs. Meanwhile, the driver is no doubt looking for a good civil rights attorney. Here’s wishing him good luck.
Future Mall Ninja....
-
He has one of the best attorneys in this field on it, as well as backing by the OFCC. This Richard Cranium is going down BIGTIME!
OFCC= Ohioans for Concealed Carry. That's who released the video!
-
If this were a "normal" discrimination lawsuit, how many millions would this guy get from the city????
I think CCW is the only minority less protected than middle aged white males.
-
Whats the police motto over there "to serve and protect" ?
Well that dude wasnt serving and the fella needed protecting, from the police.
Guy like that deserves to cop (pardon pun) a 2x4 upside the head one day as he walks out of his house!
-
The lack of respect shown by that officer is my biggest problem.
His lack of skill at common LEO procedures is bad, but that is for his superiors to handle.....the way he treats a citizen is where the danger is. He can learn to stick to procedures, but I don't think he can truly "unlearn" his disdain for those he is sworn to protect.
I also noted that I did not see his partner make any attempt to intervene even as mildly as a "Take it easy" or a "Be cool" comment.
On the other hand, the citizen always responded calmly and with respect the whole time. Of course that politeness might have been inspired by the threats of a beating and being shot to death with a service weapon.
-
Just to be fair to all the Good LEO's serving and retired
heres a good video
http://www.wimp.com/goodcop/
Notable difference!
-
The driver very clearly began to state " I have a carry..." at the first instant he was addressed by the officer., before being verbally bulldozed by the officer. Like someone else said, the dashcam footage is making his attorney giggle with glee..
My best friend is a LEO in S. Georgia in a very tough town. I have spent countless hours on ride alongs in the passenger seat seeing all aspects of his work, the good and the bad, bad meaning all the crap the officers have to put up with. Yes, they choose their line of work, if they cant deal with the stress, get out. My friend always deals with people fairly and lawfully, and it goes a long way with how he is treated by the public. He has a rep for being fair. Unfourtanetly, the officer in the video will (for some) become a poster child for people everywhere who only see the bad officers, and the good ones that do their job under unenviable pressures don't make for good viral videos.
I am in no way giving this officer a pass. The unlawful search, the threats by the officer (you would go to jail for that alone in my city), and the plain verbal assualt laid on by the officer made the civilian almost too scared to talk, you can hear it in his voice. He lost his job? Great. One down. The surely coming civil suit should be proceeded by the arrest of this so-called officer for the threats of bodily harm. If the civilian would have said that to the officer, it would have been an instant arrest. The badge does't make the law unapplicable. You have a HIGHER STANDARD you must conform to when being a LEO. The partner (who initiated the unlawful search) is just as culpable in the incident. I am not totally giving the civilian a pass either, he did have ample chance to tell the officer who was searching the car that he was CCW, but then he was only addressed by the other one. So, Im kind of iffy on that one..
-
My best friend is a LEO in S. Georgia in a very tough town.
Sounds like Albany (but there are a couple I could think of).......... ;D ;D
-
I say Fire, Fine, and make sure he isn't allowed to own any firearms. The guy is mentally unstable. >:(
-
Found this video over at Breda's http://www.thebredafallacy.com/
Canton City Council President makes his though about this incidents general relationship to gun ownership.
-
Not big on empirical evidence is he?
-
"Common sense gun control laws" = The cops and the bad guys can be armed but the victims can't.
-
Yeah....the only violent acts involved in the entire incident were by that rogue cop.
But then, if the citizen had been forced to be unarmed in one of the most dangerous locals in the city at one of the most dangerous times (all this is stated by this dope) then the cop wouldn't have been forced to resort to violence in his dealings with a law abiding citizen who clearly posed no threat to anyone, particularly the officers involved. Dramatically illustrates the deadly consequences of citizens going armed, doesn't it?
-
Illustrates the danger of cops going armed.
-
Found this video over at Breda's http://www.thebredafallacy.com/
Canton City Council President makes his though about this incidents general relationship to gun ownership.
God what a jackass. He hates the idea of carrying a gun at one thirty in the morning in a crime ridden neighborhood full of "drugs and prostitution"? Well, what if that's all you can afford and you're coming home from your shift at the diner? Anyone want to bet that if the good mayor were put in that situation he'd be packing inside of a week?
FQ13
-
You know, I was thinking....I'm fine...the AC is on .....
This guy was upset with the email, mail and phone response to the first video of this incident.
I can only chuckle when I think about how he might be feeling right about now.
-
I hope he has a short career on the City Council....What a buffoon. If you hold the Police in such high regard for their professionalism and duty, how about YOU stroll through the HIGH CRIME AREAS in your lovely town, unescorted at 1:30 a.m. and brag about the Police doing such a great job....
clown... >:(
-
How long has Barney "Butt Blaster" Frank been in office ?
-
How long has Barney "Butt Blaster" Frank been in office ?
About eight inches too long!
-
So.......Bottom line, is this asshat still riding around in a patrol car earning a salary from the taxpayers? If so the people of that city should be outraged, and invade every city council meeting until he is fired with loss of all benifits. Bill T.
-
Apparently this asshat has decided to take the opportunity of having one of this police officers behaving like a jack-booted thug to criticize concealed carry laws. No, hell no, it's not the out-of-control, badge-heavy embarrassment to the law enforcement profession that caused the problem, it was that a peon had the temerity to exercise his Constitutional right to defend himself (in accordance with the law of the land in that state) that pisses off this political douchebag. To be honest, though, once I heard him say he was a lawyer I started to expect his statement to piss me off.
If I happen to find myself in a "crime-ridden" neighborhood at 1 o'clock in the morning, I damn sure WANT to be armed!! I'm not sure who this asshat thought the cop in question was "protecting", but it looked to me as though the citizen needed a little protection from Robo-Cop.
This walking, talking rectum is just one more reason that Canton, Ohio will never need to worry about having my ample shadow cast upon it's doorstep. And hopefully, the NRA, USCCA, etc will urge all their members to do the same.
The President of the Canton City Council needs to change his name to Richard Head. Then, if he actually has any friends, they can call him Dick.
-
....
This walking, talking rectum is just one more reason that Canton, Ohio will never need to worry about having my ample shadow cast upon it's doorstep. And hopefully, the NRA, USCCA, etc will urge all their members to do the same.
....
Why would the NRA or USCCA, etc. care? They continue to support California!
-
I will say this without hesitation. There is no way I could have controlled myself as well as that guy did, for as long as he did! These kind of guys are just hoping to raise a reaction to justify their belligerent actions. The threats alone this asshole made should not only have cost him his job, but should have him brought up on felony charges. He threatened to "cave in his head", and "shoot him". This guy did nothing, and never behaved in a threatening manner. Never once.
All this clown did was play CYA for a traffic stop that should be used in every police academy as an example of how not to stop and detain someone! I have to admit this guy had zero business in that part of town, at that hour. He most likely was cruising for some ass. Be that as it may, 99% of the time if the guy was as well mannered as he was, the cops simply would have sent him on his way, telling him not to come back.
But this total asshat crossed the line and put on his asshole suit before he ever stepped from his car. I hate to say this, but this is the kind of cop who if he ever gets it in the line of duty, I hope his dash cam shows the same thing it showed in this case. These guys always wind up picking a fight with a tougher person who doesn't care. He got lucky with this guy because he still has his life. As far as I'm concerned that's more than he deserves! He is that big of a POS. Bill T.
-
Cop or not, I say the guy would have been justified in shooting the prick cop. Doesn't the threats issued by officer dichead constitute a threat of deadly force against a legal ccw holder? And isn't that enough to justify fear of ones life? Enough to shoot to stop a threat? Extreme to be sure, and the poor guy handled the situation better than I think I could have. But if I was on the jury had he shot the cop, I would give him self defense all day long after watching HALF of the dash cam vid. I cannot express my anger at what this clown did to a citizen that he is supposed to be out there protecting.
-
A video of the same cop from July of last year shows him with the same attitude at a DUI stop when he sees a gun on the floor of the back seat. Maybe some justification for it in this case, but he is WAY over the top again.
You can find the video and story at this link;
http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x2014919089/Video-Officer-Harless-loses-his-temper-on-another-arrest
-
Why would the NRA or USCCA, etc. care? They continue to support California!
Trust me, the NRA does not do a damn thing in CA other then take money.
-
Cop or not, I say the guy would have been justified in shooting the prick cop. Doesn't the threats issued by officer dichead constitute a threat of deadly force against a legal ccw holder? And isn't that enough to justify fear of ones life? Enough to shoot to stop a threat? Extreme to be sure, and the poor guy handled the situation better than I think I could have. But if I was on the jury had he shot the cop, I would give him self defense all day long after watching HALF of the dash cam vid. I cannot express my anger at what this clown did to a citizen that he is supposed to be out there protecting.
There would have been no jury had he shot Officer Asshat, since the second officer would have surely shot the citizen, and justifiably so to protect his own life. The only way to win in that situation is by behaving calmly, exactly as the citizen did. He put up with abuse, but he'll have the last laugh in this situation, when he watches RoboCop look for a job, and collects the big check (after his lawyer's cut) that he'll get from the City of Canton.
-
There would have been no jury had he shot Officer Asshat, since the second officer would have surely shot the citizen, and justifiably so to protect his own life. The only way to win in that situation is by behaving calmly, exactly as the citizen did. He put up with abuse, but he'll have the last laugh in this situation, when he watches RoboCop look for a job, and collects the big check (after his lawyer's cut) that he'll get from the City of Canton.
Tell ya what.... Staying calm and getting through it was the wise course here, but if it was me and I still had possession of my weapon with uncuffed hands and the officer threatened twice to kill me....and then he reached for his gun, I'd have had to see who's training was better...and if the second cop didn't give me a chance to "surrender" someone else would be getting shot.
I might be shot dead by either or put away or put under in court if I lived, but I'd not sit and be executed when I could fight.
But, yeah, I'd work towards what happened in this incident.
-
This city council ass-hat defends the Canton cop. >:(
Canton City Council Responds to Policeman Threatening Violence and Death, and It Ain't Pretty
--------------
"This is a symptom of the arming, the literal arming of our population with handguns, and the flooding of handguns into our communities. These laws that allow our citizens to carry guns... in the worst neighborhoods, where there is high crime... that's not acceptable in our society.
"As long as these laws permit people to carry weapons in the worst of circumstances, in the worst situations, there are deaths waiting to happen. Either police officers, or citizens, who think that by arming themselves, they're somehow safe."
~ Canton City Council president Allen Schulman
http://www.guns.com/canton-city-council-responds-to-policeman-threatening-violence-and-it-aint-pretty.html
Another article on the matter here:
http://www.indeonline.com/news/x410262827/Schulman-defends-Cantons-reputation-after-police-video-backlash
City Council President Allen Schulman lashed out at those from outside the Canton area who have blasted the city over a police video involving a traffic stop and a citizen with a concealed weapon permit.
At Monday’s meeting, Schulman also was strongly critical of Ohio’s concealed handgun law.
-
Just saw where the politician defended the officer. I was showing my two sons the video and started reading the article about the shitty councilman who appears to be anti 2A.
Then I noticed the Canton PD Officer's last name. Same as yours truly. :'( Could not believe that crap... >:(
The officer needs some serious counseling and a unpaid vacation. He was way out of line.
The second officer was also in the car. The driver should have told him while he was searching the car. Both are in the wrong. The driver should get a warning but not lose his CCW. The threats from the Officer Harless need to be addressed.
-
Just saw where the politician defended the officer. I was showing my two sons the video and started reading the article about the shitty councilman who appears to be anti 2A.
Then I noticed the Canton PD Officer's last name. Same as yours truly. :'( Could not believe that crap... >:(
The officer needs some serious counseling and a unpaid vacation. He was way out of line.
The second officer was also in the car. The driver should have told him while he was searching the car. Both are in the wrong. The driver should get a warning but not lose his CCW. The threats from the Officer Harless need to be addressed.
Fruit of the poisoned tree. The driver did nothing wrong, even when the 2nd cop was in the car, the first had told him to shut up, and he complied. This cop was so wrong from the very get go that EVERYTHING that comes out of this incident is tainted - poisoned - and cannot be used.
Cop #1 threatened to execute a prisoner handcuffed in the back of the squad car. He should be in jail. He won't end up there though, and if he loses his job, he will get another at some crappier PD somewhere - they are always looking for goons in some towns.
-
I saw on another forum where some cops beat a guy so bad his own father didn't recognize him. After being in a coma for a few days he died. There's way too much of this abuse going on. My own experience with cops isn't good either but they never got physical with me.
-
I've noted that the "perspective" of some, maybe many, police officers is "wrong".
They have strayed from their true "mission" of protecting citizens and have adopted several other views.
Among them are: enforcing laws, maintaining police control, supporting other officers.
Each of these should not be the "goal" of LEOs, but the techniques used to achieve the goal of protecting the citizens.
Part of that is enforcing laws, but, for example, enforcing J-walking laws at 2:00am on empty streets does nothing to protect anyone. But it does further a goal of maintaining police control.
The treatment of the citizen involved in this incident is a supreme example of LEOs going all out to achieve the goals of enforcing laws and maintaining police control and completely sacrificing protecting the citizens to do so.
The emphasis needs to get back on making protecting the citizens primary function of police and thinking of these other "goals" as only a means to that proper function of LEOs.
I've mentioned this before, but the above refocusing is a major part of Sheriff Mack's No Sheriff Left Behind program. It is directed not just at Sheriffs but at all LEOs.
-
After reading Solus's post it struck me again that Rush is right. Words have specific meanings and connotations, and using one word when you really mean something else can change the perceived meaning of your statement.
I've brought this up before and the example I always use is" ignorant versus stupid", because it's easily understood.
An "ignorant" person has not been made aware of particular information, while a "stupid" person can not absorb or apply information they have been exposed to.
In this case , "LEO's" are scumbags like the one portrayed in the video. Gestapo wannabe's who say, "I have a badge and a gun, I am the law".
They are the ones who will be happy to join Obama and Soros in suppressing American patriots.
They are also the ones who give Americans a bad attitude toward the others who are, "Police Officers", "Peace Officers", "Cops", and "Public Safety workers".
-
I posted that comment because when I saw Solus' use of the term "LEO" I read it as "law enforcement officer", that triggered the thought " LAW ENFORCEMENT" officer. That put me in mind of the difference between those who would serve and protect the public as opposed to those who would enforce laws and policies, public be damned.
I did not think he used "LEO" in a derogatory manner, but I do think it is a derogatory, though accurate, term for some who wear a badge.
-
You are correct, Tom.
Considering yourself a LAW ENFORCEMENT Officer immediately distorts what a good Peace Officer should be about.
That was the point of my post and I didn't see that relationship until you made the observation.
-
Sounds like Albany (but there are a couple I could think of).......... ;D ;D
Farther south, without giving it away ;-) Albany is definitely rough though.
-
Farther south, without giving it away ;-) Albany is definitely rough though.
I gotcha. ;)
-
Am I the only one who thinks the partner needs to go down for condoning the actions of his brother officer? He's obviously not part of the solution...
-
Am I the only one who thinks the partner needs to go down for condoning the actions of his brother officer? He's obviously not part of the solution...
That depends. Who put the video on You Tube ?
-
This has gone to trial. Here is a link to the site covering it. It ended with the defense making a move to dismiss and it was accepted.
http://ohioccw.org/201111094989/live-bartlett-trial-blog.html
snippit
Officer Diels is now on the stand and was read the criminal complaint that he and officer Harless (the aggressive one who threatened to execute Bartlett) both signed and swore was the truth. That complaint implies that Bartlett never identified until after a pat down search of his body found a firearm.
The video obviously shows a much different story. Diels is forced to admit on the stand that the criminal complain they filed isn't the truth.
Earlier Diels said on the stand that from the back of the car on the passenger side he could hear everything that Bartlett said to officer Harless. The defense played the video of Bartlett saying "I have a carry" and Diels is now on the stand saying that he couldn't hear what Bartlett said. He continues to contradict himself on the stand.
Follow the trial in real time at the link above. We anticipate many more fireworks in this case!
-
No one has posted a follow up, but after the prosecution rested the defense moved for a dismissal of the charges. The judge granted the motion (dismissed the charges of failure to notify).
Obviously, for those who've seen the video, this should have never come to trial. If I were the judge I'd be reaming out the prosecution for a total waste of both the taxpayers and Bartlett's money. I wouldn't be surprised if Bartlett then filed a civil suit against the police and the prosecution, if that's possible in Ohio.
-
No one has posted a follow up, but after the prosecution rested the defense moved for a dismissal of the charges. The judge granted the motion (dismissed the charges of failure to notify).
Obviously, for those who've seen the video, this should have never come to trial. If I were the judge I'd be reaming out the prosecution for a total waste of both the taxpayers and Bartlett's money. I wouldn't be surprised if Bartlett then filed a civil suit against the police and the prosecution, if that's possible in Ohio.
If the laws of the state allow it, he certainly should. Or perhaps a lawsuit in federal court for violation of his rights.
-
No word on if Bartlett plans on a suit against the city. He did plead guilty to the Mickey Mouse traffic violation of stopping in the road way (at 2 am) and was fined $150. The story said his ex-wife was there supporting him and was with him all the way....maybe a reconciliation is possible :D
You can find the full story here http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8067
"I thought it would turn out this way,” is all William E. Bartlett had to say Wednesday afternoon after a judge threw out a concealed carry charge against him that took on a worldwide half-life when the arrest video went viral.
Bartlett's ex-wife, Deborah Bartlett, stood by his side as he shyly shook hands with a gaggle of demonstrative concealed carry permit well-wishers. “I was behind him all the way,” she said quietly.
A conviction could have sent Bartlett to jail for up to six months.
With that charge out of the way, Bartlett pleaded no contest to a traffic violation — stopping in the roadway — and was fined $150 by Municipal Court Judge Stephen Belden.
-
Police are people just like anyone else. Sometimes they have a bad day, like anyone else.
And as people, if they threaten someone minding their own business with deadly force, what should be the difference in your reaction from that of being threatened a drug cartel member? Sometimes bad people get jobs they should not be in.
Police are people just like anyone else. Some people in police uniforms are like unto to a pack of mad dogs. Case in point the Danziger Bridge incident in New Orleans. What’s the difference to the person being subjected to a deadly force crime whether it’s from baggy pants or a uniform? How would you respond to either?
-
Police are people just like anyone else. Sometimes they have a bad day, like anyone else.
And as people, if they threaten someone minding their own business with deadly force, what should be the difference in your reaction from that of being threatened a drug cartel member? Sometimes bad people get jobs they should not be in.
Police are people just like anyone else. Some people in police uniforms are like unto to a pack of mad dogs. Case in point the Danziger Bridge incident in New Orleans. What’s the difference to the person being subjected to a deadly force crime whether it’s from baggy pants or a uniform? How would you respond to either?
you can have the worst day of your life and still be professional too your custmers.
-
Damn, I agree with TAB!
Richard
-
you can have the worst day of your life and still be professional too your custmers.
Exactly my point.
So is there a material difference between a lethal threat from "baggy pants" and an errant uniform?
-
I believe in the golden rule, "If their trying to shoot me, I'm trying to shoot them first ", and I don't care where their paycheck comes from.
-
Took awhile, but it looks like Justice prevailed.....at least until the decision is appealed.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8158
Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen's Association, the union that represents Patrolman Daniel Harless, confirmed that city Safety Director Thomas Ream ruled that Harless is no longer a member of the city’s police force.
Ream issued a three-page ruling dated Tuesday.
"It is quite clear that (Harless') actions represented a pattern of behavior where inappropriate verbal abuse and threats of death or great bodily harm of the various complainants occurred,” Ream wrote.
"This escalating pattern of potentially dangerous behavior cannot be justified or excused and clearly illustrates the seriousness of the departmental infractions."
-
Took awhile, but it looks like Justice prevailed.....at least until the decision is appealed.
"It is quite clear that (Harless') actions represented a pattern of behavior where inappropriate verbal abuse and threats of death or great bodily harm of the various complainants occurred,” Ream wrote.
"This escalating pattern of potentially dangerous behavior cannot be justified or excused and clearly illustrates the seriousness of the departmental infractions."
I'd like to applaud but I can't, why did it take this long? Officer Azzhat could have ended someone's life in 2 seconds but it takes 6 months after NATIONAL attention to fire his badge heavy butt? Do we blame the unions or ... nevermind there is noone else to blame other than the unions.
-
I'd like to applaud but I can't, why did it take this long? Officer Azzhat could have ended someone's life in 2 seconds but it takes 6 months after NATIONAL attention to fire his badge heavy butt? Do we blame the unions or ... nevermind there is noone else to blame other than the unions.
As much as I bad mouth Unions I think this had to go through court before they could take action and the case wasn't heard until last month.
-
As much as I bad mouth Unions I think this had to go through court before they could take action and the case wasn't heard until last month.
The union did everything they could to drag it out...conflicting schedules, medical postponements, anything possible...
-
The union did everything they could to drag it out...conflicting schedules, medical postponements, anything possible...
And according to a report a day or 2 ago, the union is now filing to get the guy's job back, cuz, ya see, all of a sudden he has this PTSD thing and under ADA the city can't fire him after all. :o ::) >:(
-
And we wonder why more and more people don't trust cops anymore
The FOP is SO helpful. ::)
-
There was a time when a union would have been first in line to fire this guy (after getting a severence package). The reason being he makes life harder for the rest of them. Screw up once? They'll be there. Screw up all the time, and publically? The've never heard of you. The electricians union is a key example. A a few house fires due to faulty wiring and they can't claim a premium for union labor due to "safety concerns" anymore. You'd think cops would see it the same way. God knows every officer in that department is probably taking all sorts of remedial PC courses, afraid to say "darn" to a suspect, and is afraid that if they ever use violence it will bite them on the ass, all thanks to this guy. You'd think they'd hate him. Apparently not. ::)
FQ13
-
I see unions, the FOP specifically, in almost a "survival"mode. Keeping this jacka$$ employed keeps a member and his money. They are fighting to remain relevant in the current world since they were so successful in getting the workers better conditions in the past that they don't have anything else to accomplish than make money and try and get Dems elected.
-
There was a time when a union would have been first in line to fire this guy (after getting a severence package). The reason being he makes life harder for the rest of them. Screw up once? They'll be there. Screw up all the time, and publically? The've never heard of you. The electricians union is a key example. A a few house fires due to faulty wiring and they can't claim a premium for union labor due to "safety concerns" anymore. You'd think cops would see it the same way. God knows every officer in that department is probably taking all sorts of remedial PC courses, afraid to say "darn" to a suspect, and is afraid that if they ever use violence it will bite them on the ass, all thanks to this guy. You'd think they'd hate him. Apparently not. ::)
FQ13
Problem with this is that the Electricians Union are worried you will hire an electrician at below union wages if they don't keep a good reputation.
With the police departments, you can't hire a police officer who is not in the union no matter how high the union wage or shoddy the union work.
And if you are not a Police Department but a private company and you try to move your operation to a state where you can avoid mandatory union labor, the Feds will work to prevent the move.
-
For anyone interested in an update of the events following the original incident, here it is. Lots of review of everything that has occurred to date also.
Ohio CHL-holder files civil rights suit against Canton officer who threatened to execute him
William Bartlett, an Ohio concealed handgun license (CHL)-holder, has filed a civil rights lawsuit in federal court against the City of Canton, the Canton police department, and against Daniel Harless and other officers involved in his arrest and prosecution for supposedly failing to promptly notify officers that he had a CHL.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8442
-
Thanks for posting this..