For group issue, Glock .45 or 10mm.I wish my XD had that coating. IF I wasn't a cyclist, it wouldn't be a big deal (it's better than infamous rust issue they had ten years ago) the only issue I'm struggling with rust is around the sights. I'm not a Glock fan just because it didn't fit me well. IF I could get a striker fired '1911'. I prefer a steel pistol. Night sights, I'm fine with the 13rds.
My personal go to choices are .357 revolver or a 1911 in .45.
The reason for the difference is , First, for military purposes I agree with FQ on at least 10 rounds, on the other hand, I'm no longer in the military , I'm not likely to be dealing with "human wave" attacks. Second, between the polymer, and tenifer finish the Glock is very resistant to long term environmental exposure such as Swamp or jungle, again, as a civilian I am unlikely to encounter those conditions.
I don't believe the Glock or most any other new poly pistol is the way to go because the safety is in the trigger and when left to the untrained user will be a problem!
FNP-45 USG with a RMR sight. If it works in MB's little paws and in others gorilla grips with a red dot sight I think it would be very affective. For a revolver I'm partial to S&W 686 with a 4" barrel or a Colt Python with a 4" barrel.
You will NEVER see a revolver, for the reason I stated earlier about what a pistol is for.If the Army adopted it, it would no longer be a novelty. Remember, the thread isn't about what you would want to buy, its about what you would want to be issued.
10mm is to much of a "novelty" round to be a realistic choice. Great stopping power, but not enough users therfore enough supply. Brings you back to the 9 or 45 as far as caliber.
If the Army adopted it, it would no longer be a novelty. Remember, the thread isn't about what you would want to buy, its about what you would want to be issued.
FQ13
Colt 10mm Delta Elite or similar. But definitely a 10mm ;D
How do you get the girls and the non-handgun familar men to qualify with them?
Even the FBI wanted it downloaded, giving birth to the 40 S&W. Most soldiers (and most cops) don't shoot handguns worth a darn to begin with.
IMHO the 10mm is just way too much gun for what is needed.
How do you get the girls and the non-handgun familar men to qualify with them?
Even the FBI wanted it downloaded, giving birth to the 40 S&W. Most soldiers (and most cops) don't shoot handguns worth a darn to begin with.
IMHO the 10mm is just way too much gun for what is needed.
Slightly off topic, but hey its my thread; how many of our troops do you think slip a box or six of JHPs in their duffle bags before deploying, the Hague Convention be damned? I know I would, but only if I could get away with it. The question is can they and do they? Its not like someone is going to do an autopsy on a dead hostile. Just curious.
FQ13
I wouldn't be surprised if they would use a Glock for certain missions when the handgun was only a backup weapon. The difference is for most regular troops a sidearm is a last resort defensive weapon, right before you go to rock, knife or fist. For an operator the entire mission plan might be based around a handgun as the primary assault option, especially in a cqb setting with a suppressed pistol. The Glock's don't really suppress well from my experience where pistols like the Mk23 are designed from the bench up to be suppressed. Same thing with the custom 1911's they choose, they are bench tuned to a suppressor if that is part of the op. The Glock is probably the very best "jack of all trades, master of none" type pistol. If you could only own one psitol in 99.9% of the cases it should probably be a Glock. If you can own as many as you want you really don't have a need to own even one Glock. If you're somewhere in the middle like most people are then you probably own a couple of them and know you can count on them even when your higher priced toys may fail you.
Could you? probably
Would it be a good idea if caught? no
All ammo is checked out to the individual and must be accounted for; random inspections, rotating ammo periodically, or turning it in as soon as you step inside the wire or go off-shift, under the supervision of the armorer. You could take your allotment and not put it in your mags and leave it in your hooch to turn in later. If you get caught with non-standard ammo, expect a trip to the man. There are way to many ways to get pinched.
Now if you want to take into account any major foreign force we may face, not 3rd world countries or taliban, will most likely have body armor or some type of flak jacket then I could see going the complete opposite direction and looking at the FN-5.7. User friendly controls, nearly no recoil, excellent sights, fully ambidextrous and ridiculously high magazine capacity of 20 or even 30rds. I wouldn't necessarily choose it as a civilian defensive sidearm but as a military sidearm it would have a lot of advantages. Additionally you can put more than double the ammo size & weight in the same place as .45acp.
You will be fined and torn a new asshole if caught by our side. If the other side catches you your dead right there, No questions asked.We aren't fighting a civilized foe, and part of having a handgun is making sure you don't get taken alive. In this case the G26 (at least for me) would be ten minus one. :-\ As far as they go? Screw them.
And that's fighting a civilized foe.
Slightly off topic, but hey its my thread; how many of our troops do you think slip a box or six of JHPs in their duffle bags before deploying, the Hague Convention be damned? I know I would, but only if I could get away with it. The question is can they and do they? Its not like someone is going to do an autopsy on a dead hostile. Just curious.
FQ13
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/G21004.jpg)
Plus the 27 rd. mags are a plus...
Hey, TW, how do those things feed? I heard the Hi-Cap Scherer's weren't worth a $h!t, which is why I never bought any. Those look a lot nicer.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2MGSGMTGL2127-1.html
R dees dem?
Let's just pretend you were in charge of buying a new pistol for the Army, as someone is as we speak. What would your specs be and why?
(http://www.berettausa.com/assets/item/gunlarge/92A15.jpg)
No good reason to radically change anything. The 92A1 is a refinement of the pistol everyone already knows how to use and maintain. Like any other firearm, it works well with a modicum of maintenance. Existing M9 holsters, magazines and ammo are fully compatible. I would attrition replace the existing stock of 15 rd mags with MDS or Mec Gar 17's. No more low bid junk mags please.
I would argue that "low bid magazines" may not work for us since we buy a few and reuse them for years.
For the military on the other hand, which buys them by the 10's of thousands, while reliability is important, buying top dollar magazines which will be abused and lost is wasteful.
Yes but there is low bid cost and then there's just crap. Some of the mags we're expecting our soldiers to use are just crap. I actually just mailed 5 mec-gar mags to a buddy in Kabul a few weeks ago. Almost everyone I know who has or is deployed take their own personal mags.Amen! Remember that regardless of the weapon's pros and cons, first and foremost it has to go bang every time. Everything else is just details.
Yes but there is low bid cost and then there's just crap. Some of the mags we're expecting our soldiers to use are just crap. I actually just mailed 5 mec-gar mags to a buddy in Kabul a few weeks ago. Almost everyone I know who has or is deployed take their own personal mags.Like Tom Gresham says, and others too, a semi-auto without a magazine is a cumbersome single shot!
If Beretta made something like the 92A1 in 45, that would be a nice gun.
If you lay an M9 down next to a full sized USP 45 they're about the same size.
It may be that they do not trust the slide with .45 ACP after the trouble they had with 9MM causing them to crack.
I'm thinking that as well. Even though the .45 ACP is loaded to much lower pressure, it has far more recoil, especially in high performance defense loads. Also, Beretta is about the only manufacturer who hasn't done so with their large frame pistols. They make the 92 in .40 S&W, but not .45 ACP. They got the PX -4 "Storm" in .45 ACP. It's got that rotating barrel abortion, and seems to work well in .45, but I'm willing to bet there are prototype .45, 92-FS models lying around their engineering dept...... Perhaps with cracks in the slide.I have never liked that gun. Obviously the army does, but I don't know why. Frankly, if I were to be issued a 9mm and it couldn't be a Glock (or something like it, a Sig etc.) because of the safety issue, I'd sure as hell rather carry a Browning hi-power than the Berreta. The Browning is a scaled down 1911 and is pretty much bullet proof. My only complaint is the mag disconnect safety, which would be a DQ in terms of a combat hand gun, but that should be an easy fix.
I have never liked that gun. Obviously the army does, but I don't know why. Frankly, if I were to be issued a 9mm and it couldn't be a Glock (or something like it, a Sig etc.) because of the safety issue, I'd sure as hell rather carry a Browning hi-power than the Berreta. The Browning is a scaled down 1911 and is pretty much bullet proof. My only complaint is the mag disconnect safety, which would be a DQ in terms of a combat hand gun, but that should be an easy fix.
FQ13
I'm not very "trigger sensitive", so for me it isn't too bad. I've never come across a trigger that was what I would term to be bad enough to get rid of a gun over, or even have it worked on.
My problem is the trigger. It should be consistent, not heavy on the first shot and then light after that. I mean hell, the first shot is probably going to be the one that matters, and so why is it tough to pull? Add to that that the second shot is going to seem light, and as a result I might have an ND or just plain miss. As far as I am concerned, a combat handgun should be either DAO (my preference), or a single action like a 1911 or Hi-Power. Pick one. Just don't give me something where in the heat of the moment I have to worry about trigger pull. Maybe its just me and YMMV, but if I were going to the sand box I would beg, borrow or steal a 1911 if there was any chance that I'd be allowed to carry it over the Berreta. (and if I got the chance for a Glock? I'd make my superior officer a very happy man and cure myself with bottles of mouth wash and a Victoria's Secret catalog). ;D :o The Berreta is a well built pistol, but I just don't like them and I would never carry one for SD if I had the choice.
FQ13
I'm thinking that as well. Even though the .45 ACP is loaded to much lower pressure, it has far more recoil, especially in high performance defense loads. Also, Beretta is about the only manufacturer who hasn't done so with their large frame pistols. They make the 92 in .40 S&W, but not .45 ACP. They got the PX -4 "Storm" in .45 ACP. It's got that rotating barrel abortion, and seems to work well in .45, but I'm willing to bet there are prototype .45, 92-FS models lying around their engineering dept...... Perhaps with cracks in the slide.
The Brigadier was the single stack.
They could do like T/C did when it beefed up the original Contender design and add big lumps of steel to the weak area's..
The Brigadier was the single stack.Not exactly, the old original Brigadier from the 60's I believe was a single stack but they built a double stack 92 model with beefed up sides called the 92FS-Brigadier. They've got 1/2 round material built up on either side of the chamber. You can google it or search gunbroker, pretty easy to find.
They could do like T/C did when it beefed up the original Contender design and add big lumps of steel to the weak area's..
Not exactly, the old original Brigadier from the 60's I believe was a single stack but they built a double stack 92 model with beefed up sides called the 92FS-Brigadier. They've got 1/2 round material built up on either side of the chamber. You can google it or search gunbroker, pretty easy to find.
As opposed to a proper redesign?
They added metal to the Contender to make the G2 version of it too. It beefs up the top of the frame on both sides.
+1 on the old model. I have one in stainless. I thought it was odd that T/C and Beretta's fixes were to just add more metal.
The frame and locking block cracks were effectively operator induced. The bulk of the cracked frames being reported came from the SpecWar community who, after much arm twisting and dodging the question, admitted that they had been using basically +p+ ammo that the weapon wasn't designed for. The locking blocks were caused by over zealous armorers grabbing a new one and installing it without properly checking the gaps between the lugs and frame. If they are not nearly identical the block torques and shears off, requiring ANOTHER block. That's why for a long time Beretta had a mandate that any barrel or locking block replacement required the entire pistol be send back to the factory for the work to be completed.