Combat handgun. What do you want?

[mauler]

How do you get the girls and the non-handgun familar men to qualify with them?
Even the FBI wanted it downloaded, giving birth to the 40 S&W. Most soldiers (and most cops) don't shoot handguns worth a darn to begin with.
IMHO the 10mm is just way too much gun for what is needed.

I agree.  If I were going to deer hunt with it, that would be fine, but I think the severity of recoil and report are excessive for the task at hand.  I have never seen any evidence to convince me that the 10mm is more effective at killing people than .45 acp.  I don't see how a .40 caliber bullet going 500 fps out someone's back is any better than a .45 caliber bullet going 300 fps out someone's back.

[jnevis]

How do you get the girls and the non-handgun familar men to qualify with them?
Even the FBI wanted it downloaded, giving birth to the 40 S&W. Most soldiers (and most cops) don't shoot handguns worth a darn to begin with.
IMHO the 10mm is just way too much gun for what is needed.

Exactly
It also gets back to ammo availability, in and outside our own supply lines.  Comercial Off the Shelf in LARGE quantities.

[fightingquaker13]

Slightly off topic, but hey its my thread; how many of our troops do you think slip a box or six of JHPs in their duffle bags before deploying, the Hague Convention be damned? I know I would, but only if I could get away with it. The question is can they and do they? Its not like someone is going to do an autopsy on a dead hostile. Just curious.
FQ13

[mauler]

If I was stuck with a 9mm you better believe I would be smuggling in some cor bons.

[twyacht]

Since I can't get Han Solo's Blaster (yet),...

M&P .45 or my G21. They have survived every conceivable form of torture, and than some....After trolling a M&P 45, behind a 48'Viking Sportfish in the Gulf Stream all day, rinsing it with beach sand and more salt water, than firing 1000 rds. through it, even the Combat Vet, in the video said, Damn it still works.

Same with the Glock 21. Tied behind a truck and bounced down 10 miles of bad dirt road, frozen, buried in mud, sand, muck, and rinsed in stagnant pond water, than fired until it stopped auto cycling, but would still fire manually cycling.  That's why I bought it. Certainly not because it's "pretty"... but it will eat all .45 ammo out there.

Plus the 27 rd. mags are a plus...

Going with Majer on the S&W R8 Revolver. It is the baddest .357 out there. Modern combat doesn't warrant a revolver any longer. (Except in urban combat, it would be very effective as a zombie slayer.)


Although, a bunch of Gurkha's with R8 revolvers,....well,...they would enjoy the hand to hand combat..

[Sponsor]

[jnevis]

Slightly off topic, but hey its my thread; how many of our troops do you think slip a box or six of JHPs in their duffle bags before deploying, the Hague Convention be damned? I know I would, but only if I could get away with it. The question is can they and do they? Its not like someone is going to do an autopsy on a dead hostile. Just curious.
FQ13

Could you? probably
Would it be a good idea if caught? no

All ammo is checked out to the individual and must be accounted for; random inspections, rotating ammo periodically, or turning it in as soon as you step inside the wire or go off-shift, under the supervision of the armorer.  You could take your allotment and not put it in your mags and leave it in your hooch to turn in later.  If you get caught with non-standard ammo, expect a trip to the man.  There are way to many ways to get pinched. 

[mkm]

I've been following for this for a while and trying to figure out what I would want.  I started off liking the 10mm and .45 acp ideas and am still not opposed to them.  I have drank from the cool aid, and it was good.  Therefore, Glock has been my manufacturer since the beginning.

Then, I read this from basfu in the tier thread.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would use a Glock for certain missions when the handgun was only a backup weapon. The difference is for most regular troops a sidearm is a last resort defensive weapon, right before you go to rock, knife or fist. For an operator the entire mission plan might be based around a handgun as the primary assault option, especially in a cqb setting with a suppressed pistol. The Glock's don't really suppress well from my experience where pistols like the Mk23 are designed from the bench up to be suppressed. Same thing with the custom 1911's they choose, they are bench tuned to a suppressor if that is part of the op. The Glock is probably the very best "jack of all trades, master of none" type pistol. If you could only own one psitol in 99.9% of the cases it should probably be a Glock. If you can own as many as you want you really don't have a need to own even one Glock. If you're somewhere in the middle like most people are then you probably own a couple of them and know you can count on them even when your higher priced toys may fail you.
 

I have now come to the conclusion that, if I was a regular soldier, I would want a 9mm Glock with quality hollowpoints.  Simple, reliable, and effective as a defensive weapon.  Worlwide ammo availablity and more rounds for equal weight give the 9mm a win in my case.  I know larger bullets mean you need less, in theory, but this is pretty much a backup to your long gun.  On the other hand, I would want something with a larger bullet if I was a special ops guy who plans to use his handgun.

[Ping]

Right on about the armorer. I was one for several years. Everything is accounted for. Now in the field, it is completely different especially if you are working in a combat zone. You hold on to your weapon at all times unless there is a defect or issue and then it is turned in.

As for the topic of a safety on a handgun and the military, I carried the Smith and Wesson .38 Revolver. There was not a safety on the side. We also did not leave one chamber empty. Negligent discharges are just that: negligent. If you follow all proper firearm safety rules, there should not be an issue. The ones that I did happen to witness at the armory was due to sergeants and airman being in a hurry during shift change and not following the proper procedures. Two were with a .38, one Beretta and one M-60. The report gets your undivided attention and the SP's at the barrel had to make a trip to see the First Sergeant and Commander to explain themselves.

[bafsu92]

The thing everyone who keeps pushing the 10mm here needs to remember is you're limited to ball ammo. I personally would not want a 10mm with ball, it's going to blow right through anybody you shoot. I think it's been proven beyond argument that if you're limited to ball then you want it to be big and slow. The 45 is really the only answer so if you took all the requirements, hi-cap mag, made in the US by US incorporated company etc. you are pretty much left with the M&P 45. If you open up the requirements I'd prefer a Glock 21 or a FNP-45 but any of those 3 would be a good choice.

Now if you want to take into account any major foreign force we may face, not 3rd world countries or taliban, will most likely have body armor or some type of flak jacket then I could see going the complete opposite direction and looking at the FN-5.7. User friendly controls, nearly no recoil, excellent sights, fully ambidextrous and ridiculously high magazine capacity of 20 or even 30rds. I wouldn't necessarily choose it as a civilian defensive sidearm but as a military sidearm it would have a lot of advantages. Additionally you can put more than double the ammo size & weight in the same place as .45acp.

[tombogan03884]

Could you? probably
Would it be a good idea if caught? no

All ammo is checked out to the individual and must be accounted for; random inspections, rotating ammo periodically, or turning it in as soon as you step inside the wire or go off-shift, under the supervision of the armorer.  You could take your allotment and not put it in your mags and leave it in your hooch to turn in later. If you get caught with non-standard ammo, expect a trip to the man. There are way to many ways to get pinched.  

You will be fined and torn a new asshole if caught by our side. If the other side catches you your dead right there, No questions asked.
And that's fighting a civilized foe.
During WWI German machine gunners were issued a saw back bayonet to use cutting logs to build bunkers. Rumors among the allied troops were that they were supposed to make a more painful damaging wound.
German veterans took to making new guys grind the saw off because if they were captured with it they were shot on the spot.

Hey TW, You realize Han Solo's blaster was just a dressed up Mauser 1895 ?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_Wars