The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ronlarimer on October 29, 2011, 07:55:09 AM
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I started a blog about 3 weeks ago that covers many of the topics you would see on the best defense and shooting gallery. My focus is the 1st 72 hours after an incident and not TEOTWAWKI situations. It is also not strictly firearms, although that has been the beginning to build traffic.
Today's post is about surviving the a traffic stop as an armed citizen and looks at the stop from both sides. I took the position that your job during the stop is to not get shot, but I know a number of people don't believe a cop has the right to disarm you. It should be a good topic for debate and discussion and I would appreciate any comments or viewpoints I may have not fully considered.
Let me know what you think...
http://balloongoesup.blogspot.com/2011/10/surviving-traffic-stop.html
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Looks good so far.
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Liked all your advice.
You did mention one point that concerned me very much and also offered a workable solution which did not occur to me.
I would be very reluctant to handle my loaded weapon in that situation and I'd always thought I'd ask the officer if to remove it.
Your suggestion of asking to remove it in it's holster is very good and is a suggestion I will follow.....as I follow the rest already.
I have had three instances where I needed to inform a police officer I was licensed and carrying.
One where I was rear ended in a very slow speed accident and before we could even agree to go our own way with no damage done, a patrol car happened on us and the officer approached us. I informed me, he said thanks, and every thing proceeded normally.
Another time, I was in the process of purchasing a home for rehab and was meeting my contractor at the house. The house had been empty for over 3 years. I arrived early, parked my car towards the back of the drive way and sat on the porch steps to wait.
I saw a car leave the house across the street and then return from the other direction, as iff they just drove around the block.
Within a few minutes a police car arrived and the officer asked what I was doing there. Told him I was licensed and carrying and my situation with the house. He asked to see my permit but not the gun and things proceeded normally after that. Seems they had received a call that a 'homeless' person was hanging around the house....I guess I need to get a hair cut and trim my beard, but I take a perverse pride in having the police called on me within the first 15 minutes of visiting my new home ;D
Last time was a speeding stop for 50 in a 35 zone. Officer approached and I informed him I was licensed and carrying. He said thanks, then noted I had an NRA sticker on my bumper and told me to slow down in the future and have a nice day. Got lucky with the right cop on that one. One thing I noticed is that, when I told him I was carrying is backed off a few steps and spoke to me from there with his hand near his gun. Obviously he gave me the benefit of the doubt about being an upstanding gun owner, but wasn't about to risk is life on that evaluation.
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Good blog post... you provide some very reasonable advice.
I would also like to mention that even if the officer disarms the driver, the driver should not become careless with his movements in the vehicle. That police officer, if he's following his training, is going to be considering the possibility of a second weapon. Neither participant in this encounter should relax until both are on their merry way.
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You have some good advice there. In Colorado we are not required to notify and the concealed handgun permit is not tied to our drivers license. When I have been stopped I tell the office I have a license to carry and am exercising that right. So far those few I've dealt with have been very professional about it and didn't even ask anything about it. I do make sure I tell them any move that I am going to make - get my wallet, open the arm rest for registration, etc. Since I usually have a gun in the glove box as well, I make sure my registration and insurance info is kept elsewhere.
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While it's correct that, in CO you're not required to notify the officer when stopped - you ARE REQUIRED to do so when stopped in Denver. In fact, most times the dispatcher will inform the officer of your CCW when he calls in your plate. So, should you ever get stopped in Denver, please remember to notify the officer IMMEDIATELY, or you will most certainly be disarmed, handcuffed, and charged with not informing the officer (an actual ordinance in Denver). Doesn't apply anywhere else in the state, but it DOES in Denver. 'Course, Denver dispatchers don't have access to statewide CCW records - especially oultying areas/smaller counties - but why take the chance? :)
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Good job and good advice. The only thing I don't think would be the best idea is to suggest to the officer that (s)he isn't good with a gun. Whether or not that's a true statement doesn't matter if you want to keep them calm. I don't see any problem politely asking him to unload it elsewhere.
I, unfortunately, have had the experience of telling an officer that I have a gun in the truck. I wasn't wearing it either time, and it's not required in my state. However, the first time it was very visible, and the second time I thought it was in my best interest to tell him and make sure I "survived the stop."
The first time was the most exciting for lack of a better word. I had recently graduated from undergrad and moved back to my hometown about 40mins up the road. Most of my friends were still in the college town; so, I went to hang out there often. It was about 1:45 AM on a Sunday morning, and I got pulled over for not dimming my headlights on a 4 lane highway with almost no traffic. My holsterd glock was stuck between my seat and the console where I keep it when I want easy access. I turned on the dome light, rolled down the window, placed my hands in a visible position, and let him know about the gun when he got there. I was patted down "for my safety and his," and he unloaded the gun but left it in it's position. I don't guess he saw or either didn't mind leaving the other two mags in the door. It was the first time I had been pulled over in that truck and couldn't find my insurance papers without digging through everything. His backup arrived sometime after I had gotten out of the truck. He was excited when he saw the gun, but the first officer quickly informed him that I was legal. Both officers were fairly young guys and were very polite to me. The first one was especially forgiving.
When we had finally finished up, I told him that was my first time getting pulled over with a gun and asked if there was anything I should have done better. He said what I did was good. My written warning ticket was hilarious when I finally got up the nerve to look at it. Nothing on it was correct except a general description of me and my truck.
The second time I got stopped was for speeding on the interstate. The gun was in my door that time, but I felt it would be best to let him know anyway. He made somekind of smartmouthed comment about bad neighborhoods or something and told me just to leave it there. I got a ticket that time.
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While it's correct that, in CO you're not required to notify the officer when stopped - you ARE REQUIRED to do so when stopped in Denver. In fact, most times the dispatcher will inform the officer of your CCW when he calls in your plate. So, should you ever get stopped in Denver, please remember to notify the officer IMMEDIATELY, or you will most certainly be disarmed, handcuffed, and beaten severely, then charged with not informing the officer (an actual ordinance in Denver). Doesn't apply anywhere else in the state, but it DOES in Denver. 'Course, Denver dispatchers don't have access to statewide CCW records - especially oultying areas/smaller counties - but why take the chance? :)
FIFY. After all, they do have a reputation to maintain. ;)
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Michael you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I will never inform unless I have to by law. Never burden a police officer with more information than he needs to do his job. I have to inform by law here in NC, but anywhere else, I will not inform.
http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2011/11/michael-you-are-wrong-wrong-wrong.html
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Michael you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I will never inform unless I have to by law. Never burden a police officer with more information than he needs to do his job. I have to inform by law here in NC, but anywhere else, I will not inform.
http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2011/11/michael-you-are-wrong-wrong-wrong.html
I don't know about that one. Cops get nervous in traffic stops, and seeing a gun they didn't know about would seem to turn the volume up a few notches when that didn't need to be the case. If you KNOW you're legal, I don't see the harm in informing them. If there is the possibilty you are in violation of some oddball ordinance like the one in Denver and there is no statewide requirement to inform, then maybe keep your mouth shut. Its your call, but generally I'd rather be the one to tell the cop I had a gun rather than having him find it on his own.
FQ13
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Michael you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I will never inform unless I have to by law. Never burden a police officer with more information than he needs to do his job. I have to inform by law here in NC, but anywhere else, I will not inform.
http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2011/11/michael-you-are-wrong-wrong-wrong.html
While I understand where you are coming from and the need to protect your rights, I respectfully disagree with never informing unless you have to by law. If the gun is completely out of sight, not near anything you need to reach for, and it's not required by law to inform the officer, then there isn't much reason for mentioning the gun.
However, if it is possible to see it at all or near where you need to reach for documents, I think it's a better idea to infrom the officer. What is more likely to result in an overreaction by the officer: politely informing him when he first approaches or not telling him and letting him see it as you reach over it for your drivers license?
It's also more likely to keep you legal if you inform. I know it's our responsibility to know the laws wherever we go; but, as the Denver example above demonstrates, there are subtle differences everywhere you go.
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http://ncguns.blogspot.com/2011/11/michael-you-are-wrong-wrong-wrong.html
I watched the "Busted" video embedded in this blog post and have a few comments. First, I agree 110% that everyone should know what their constitutional rights are and how to properly exercise them. This video, however, sends the wrong message. While being very informative about our rights and their application, it seems to suggest that the best use of our rights is as tools to conceal illegal activity. In the first scenario, we learn about self-incrimination and consent so that we can prevent our arrest for possessing illegal drugs. In another scenario, we learn about the sanctity of our homes and the importance of search warrants so that we can prevent our arrest, again, for the possession of illegal drugs and their distribution. There seems to be a pattern here that goes beyond knowing one's rights to prevent an abuse of power.
I may be just an old "stick in the mud" but my advice would go something like this... don't break the frickin' law to begin with. Don't have illegal drugs in your pockets, your backpack, your car, or your house. Don't throw crazy-a$$ parties that are going to draw anyone's attention. Don't drive too fast or recklessly and make sure headlights, stop lights, and turn signals are working - don't give the police any reason to pull you over. Tell the truth. Know and obey the laws where you live or where you are travelling.
I seem to remember something about an ounce of prevention...
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I watched the "Busted" video embedded in this blog post and have a few comments. First, I agree 110% that everyone should know what their constitutional rights are and how to properly exercise them. This video, however, sends the wrong message. While being very informative about our rights and their application, it seems to suggest that the best use of our rights is as tools to conceal illegal activity. In the first scenario, we learn about self-incrimination and consent so that we can prevent our arrest for possessing illegal drugs. In another scenario, we learn about the sanctity of our homes and the importance of search warrants so that we can prevent our arrest, again, for the possession of illegal drugs and their distribution. There seems to be a pattern here that goes beyond knowing one's rights to prevent an abuse of power.
I may be just an old "stick in the mud" but my advice would go something like this... don't break the frickin' law to begin with. Don't have illegal drugs in your pockets, your backpack, your car, or your house. Don't throw crazy-a$$ parties that are going to draw anyone's attention. Don't drive too fast or recklessly and make sure headlights, stop lights, and turn signals are working - don't give the police any reason to pull you over. Tell the truth. Know and obey the laws where you live or where you are travelling.
I seem to remember something about an ounce of prevention...
I didn't watch the video; so, I'll take your word for it. If it is using examples of hiding drugs from the law, that isn't something I would want to associate with legal carry of a firearm. Those are oposite ends of the spectrum.
As to the second half of your post, I agree 100%.
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JLawson, While you may not approve of the specific circumstances the facts are still accurate.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the "War on Drugs" is a failed, unneeded money pit begun purely as a jobs program for laid off Prohibition agents that has been consistently used as a smoke screen for the erosion of Constitutional rights and protections.
Which is why the drug scenarios are used. They offer so many examples of offialdom acting badly.
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I live in a state (ND) where you are not required to tell an officer during a stop if you are carrying or not. Assuming a routine traffic stop, I asked a County Deputy - in front of 2 Sgts. and a Captain - what would he do if a driver informed him the driver had a CCW and was carrying. His response - cuff the driver "for the officer's safety".
Granted, this was a twerp with the obligatory "operator" haircut and Oakley Razorblades (or whatever passes for "operator" tech in eye wear these days), but he was also a Field Training Officer for the County. He kinda glared at me when I then asked why he was so scared of a law-abiding citizen who informed him. He replied with "vigor" that he was not afraid, repeated that he would cuff the driver, and it was all for officer safety.
All of the other officers - including the brass - intoned zombie-like "It's all about officer safety".
So, no, I will not inform unless required to by law.
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JLawson, While you may not approve of the specific circumstances the facts are still accurate.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the "War on Drugs" is a failed, unneeded money pit begun purely as a jobs program for laid off Prohibition agents that has been consistently used as a smoke screen for the erosion of Constitutional rights and protections.
Which is why the drug scenarios are used. They offer so many examples of offialdom acting badly.
Yes Sir, Mr. Bogan, I agree that the "War On Drugs" is a failure. Lives have been lost and money wasted on an unbelievable scale. My concern is that this video, which appears to be marketed to a young demographic, carries with its primary message an undertone of irreverence and disregard for those laws one deems to be wrong-minded. The young and "unformed" in our culture have enough difficulties discerning right from wrong as it is. I would hope that we could teach them to obey all laws - even the ones with which they don't agree. Fight to change the law... but obey it until it is changed.
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As a former LEO I agree with everything the artical says.
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Yes Sir, Mr. Bogan, I agree that the "War On Drugs" is a failure. Lives have been lost and money wasted on an unbelievable scale. My concern is that this video, which appears to be marketed to a young demographic, carries with its primary message an undertone of irreverence and disregard for those laws one deems to be wrong-minded. The young and "unformed" in our culture have enough difficulties discerning right from wrong as it is. I would hope that we could teach them to obey all laws - even the ones with which they don't agree. Fight to change the law... but obey it until it is changed.
Well Mr Lawson, I intend to piss you off. (Let me first say welcome aboard and I hope you keep posting because its all in good fun here, but sir, I intend to rip you a new one. Purely for your own good dontcha know ;)).
Oh yes, back to my point, solicitude for the newbie aside. ;) I, much to your horror I presume, used to teach poli sci at the University of Texas. I taught intro to American and Texas government and Con Law. Essentially I was teaching the "young and uninformed". I taught them a lot of things, mostly facts that I hope they would remember, lessons about the founders and our philosophy of government which I pray they will remember, and then I taught them a few home truths about life. Among the latter, I stressed that the relationship between free citizens and the state and its agents, was one of master and servant. Its the same relationship that exists between a dictatorship and its subjects. The difference being that in a free republic we are the masters, and the state and its employees are our servants, not the other way around. I explained that the state didn't see it that way, and unless we reminded them of this they might get to taking our compliance for granted. They would forget that they were working for us, not the other way around. Therefore, I told my students, they should always insist on exercising their rights because rights, like muscles, disappear if not used.
So I told them that in dealing with officialdom it was always a good and proper thing to be polite and not to lose one's temper, as that would accomplish nothing. HOWEVER, I did stress that the most important words they could learn when dealing with the police were "No sir".
"May I search your car"?
"No Sir".
"May I come in"?
"No sir".
"Would you let me look around"?
"No sir".
If "no Sir" didn't work, I told them to use five more. "Do you have a warrant"?
Failing that they were to use the words "I want a lawyer" and say nothing more.
I guess the reason I am laying into you is that you sound like an authoritarian. Someone who thinks that we should just obey unless and until someone in authority says we don't have to. Me? I'm a libertarian, and quite frankly I don't understand that authoritarian attitude. I believe that all authority should be questioned, and obeyed only if it is necessary. Note, I'm not an anarchist, I do believe in the law. I just think that we should be teaching the young and impressionable to question as a first reflex and obey as a second one. What's going to chap your ass is that over my years at UT I used your tax dollars to teach that very Jeffersonian argument to a few thousand of your neighbor's kids. Upside is that they all knew that I was NRA. ;D
FQ13 who again welcomes you aboard.
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Then here's one you should be more comfortable with, It's a Law Profesor and a Baltimore Cop.
It's called, "Never talk to the Cops"
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As a former LEO I agree with everything the artical says.
That is what I was going for. Thanks!
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Well Mr Lawson, I intend to piss you off.
Well FQ13, you may be disappointed - I am not pissed, chapped, or offended and my anatomy remains as it was before. You see, I agree with every one of your points and admit to being somewhat confused by your empassioned reply. In one of my previous replies in this thread, I stated that I believe 110% in the aggressive application of one's constitutional rights. Your assumption that I am someone "who thinks that we should just obey unless and until someone in authority says we don't have to" could not be further from the truth. I didn't say anything that should lead to that assumption. As a matter of fact, I said we should fight to change those laws that should be changed. We do that, don't we, when we call and write our Representatives and Senators. That's what we do, isn't it, when we send our donations to the NRA, SAF, and other groups.
I do not disagree with the video's primay message. I question the video's more subtle message that it's OK to disobey a law just because you don't like it. Now please understand, I'm not talking about any kind of "shoot 'em if they dissent" decree - our Founding Fathers took care of that potentiality by giving us the Second Amendment. You say to question authority... I agree.
I can question authority without breaking existing law. I don't think we should have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon... but I have one. I think that gun-free zones are murder traps... but I don't carry when I must go to one. I don't think there should be a stop sign at 4th and Elm... but I still come to a complete stop. There's a pattern here. Disagree with the law but respect the law - until you can get it changed through aggressive and organized activism. It's very difficult to fight for a cause while sitting behind bars.
As to your academic service, Sir, I'm sure you were a fine teacher. I, too, have spent some time behind the lectern and found the experience a very positive one.
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Well FQ13, you may be disappointed - I am not pissed, chapped, or offended and my anatomy remains as it was before. You see, I agree with every one of your points .
Damn JLawson, He was trying so hard, I think you hurt his feelings. ;D
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Amen Brother Tom. I miss Eric (did I just say that? :o) and his post of the day award. That guy summed up in half an hour what I tried to drum into my studen'ts heads over months. Look, Tom and I are controversial figures on this board and more often than not at each others throats. I also realize that asking someone to watch a long video is a bit much. However, this is fun, entertaining, and most of all the Gods honest truth. Think of it as a SD class for dealing with the police. Watch, or wish you had. Please, watch it, and make sure your kids do as well. At least make sure you get the gist, when confronted by the police, the only words you know are "I'd like to speak to my lawyer", because once the cops are at your door, you won't talk your way into anything but a conviction.
FQ13
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For those of you worried about reaching for your wallet and exposing your firearm, just chuck your wallet on the dash, along with the keys, before the officer comes to the window. The keys show the cop you aren't planning on running, and with your wallet up there your hands don't have to disappear to get your license. You know he's going to want to see it anyway. In my truck, I keep the registration and proof of insurance in a loop on the back of my sun visor. Now I don't even have to go into the glove box.
The real problem is that some people seem to think that the cop should have some reasonable expectation that he's the only one with a gun. They need to learn that they don't enjoy a monopoly of force. It's amazing to me that we're supposed to see cops as our allies, while so many of them see us as threats. Respect is a two way street. They need to respect the citizens, but whether they respect me or not, they will respect my rights.
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Well FQ13, you may be disappointed - I am not pissed, chapped, or offended and my anatomy remains as it was before. You see, I agree with every one of your points and admit to being somewhat confused by your empassioned reply. In one of my previous replies in this thread, I stated that I believe 110% in the aggressive application of one's constitutional rights. Your assumption that I am someone "who thinks that we should just obey unless and until someone in authority says we don't have to" could not be further from the truth. I didn't say anything that should lead to that assumption. As a matter of fact, I said we should fight to change those laws that should be changed. We do that, don't we, when we call and write our Representatives and Senators. That's what we do, isn't it, when we send our donations to the NRA, SAF, and other groups.
I do not disagree with the video's primay message. I question the video's more subtle message that it's OK to disobey a law just because you don't like it. Now please understand, I'm not talking about any kind of "shoot 'em if they dissent" decree - our Founding Fathers took care of that potentiality by giving us the Second Amendment. You say to question authority... I agree.
I can question authority without breaking existing law. I don't think we should have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon... but I have one. I think that gun-free zones are murder traps... but I don't carry when I must go to one. I don't think there should be a stop sign at 4th and Elm... but I still come to a complete stop. There's a pattern here. Disagree with the law but respect the law - until you can get it changed through aggressive and organized activism. It's very difficult to fight for a cause while sitting behind bars.
As to your academic service, Sir, I'm sure you were a fine teacher. I, too, have spent some time behind the lectern and found the experience a very positive one.
I say again, welcome aboard. I wasn't looking to start a fight, I suppose I just misread your post. Thanks for the reply.
FQ13
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When I am stopped for whatever reason I do the following.
1. Make sure the radio is turned down or off.
2. Turn on the dome light if at night.
3. Open glove compartment door.
4. Put wallet on dash.
5. Place hands on wheel in full view.
6. Disclose to officer that I am licensed to carry and whether or not I am carring immediately. Michigan is a must disclose state.
If there is time before the officer comes to the truck, I get my registration and proof of insurance out of the glove box and get my drivers license and concealed pistol license out of my wallet and have them ready.
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When I am stopped for whatever reason I do the following.
1. Make sure the radio is turned down or off.
2. Turn on the dome light if at night.
3. Open glove compartment door.
4. Put wallet on dash.
5. Place hands on wheel in full view.
6. Disclose to officer that I am licensed to carry and whether or not I am carring immediately. Michigan is a must disclose state.
If there is time before the officer comes to the truck, I get my registration and proof of insurance out of the glove box and get my drivers license and concealed pistol license out of my wallet and have them ready.
Good advice. I did a few ride alongs with the Travis County (Tx.) Sheriff's department as part of an anthropology class I had to take. All of the deputies wanted to see the light on and your hands in plain view. Get your licence after the cop shows up. He can watch you and not be concerned. Busy hands before he gets to the vehicle? It makes them nervous.
FQ13dome
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Reduced to the basics
Simple enough ?
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Reduced to the basics
Simple enough ?
I think that is about perfect... Not right for my blog... But it sums it up nicely. I think the area that most people forget is the "be polite" area and they tried to "discuss" their rights with an armed officer that disagrees.
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I think that is about perfect... Not right for my blog... But it sums it up nicely. I think the area that most people forget is the "be polite" area and they tried to "discuss" their rights with an armed officer that disagrees.
Argue with the judge, that what he's there for. ;D
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Argue with the judge, that what he's there for. ;D
Usually he's the only person in the process that knows your rights, the law and how to properly enforce the latter. At least was my experience in CT.
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Usually he's the only person in the process that knows your rights, the law and how to properly enforce the latter. At least was my experience in CT.
Like this one ?
http://news.yahoo.com/dad-caught-video-beating-daughter-needs-help-070228201.html
The Debil made do it ! ;D
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Like this one ?
http://news.yahoo.com/dad-caught-video-beating-daughter-needs-help-070228201.html
The Debil made do it ! ;D
I said USUALLY!
As for the video....
Good thing for parents when I was growing up we didn't have video cameras or Youtube to post videos for the world to see.... mom liked kindling sticks, dad liked what ever was handy. 3 boys spanning 4 years in age and one of them hell-on-wheels, NO not me I was hell-bent-for-leather, they had their hands full.
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I live in a state (ND) where you are not required to tell an officer during a stop if you are carrying or not. Assuming a routine traffic stop, I asked a County Deputy - in front of 2 Sgts. and a Captain - what would he do if a driver informed him the driver had a CCW and was carrying. His response - cuff the driver "for the officer's safety".
Granted, this was a twerp with the obligatory "operator" haircut and Oakley Razorblades (or whatever passes for "operator" tech in eye wear these days), but he was also a Field Training Officer for the County. He kinda glared at me when I then asked why he was so scared of a law-abiding citizen who informed him. He replied with "vigor" that he was not afraid, repeated that he would cuff the driver, and it was all for officer safety.
All of the other officers - including the brass - intoned zombie-like "It's all about officer safety".
So, no, I will not inform unless required to by law.
I was under the impression we were required to inform. Did that change? The one time I did inform I was hit and I informed the responding officer she didn't do anything to me. "The kid got a ticket for failure to drive with care.
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I was under the impression we were required to inform. Did that change? The one time I did inform I was hit and I informed the responding officer she didn't do anything to me. "The kid got a ticket for failure to drive with care.
I had an accident on Labor Day, hit a pedestrian in the shadow of a tree early in the morning, on my way to the range with my two oldest girls, with every gun I own in the back of my Element. It never crossed my mind to say anything to the officers and I am sure they looked in my vehicle. Nothing was said, I was ticketed, non-copable, and I went home and broke down in my wife's arms.
I should know what the law is but its not like I live in NJ...
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I had an accident on Labor Day, hit a pedestrian in the shadow of a tree early in the morning, on my way to the range with my two oldest girls, with every gun I own in the back of my Element. It never crossed my mind to say anything to the officers and I am sure they looked in my vehicle. Nothing was said, I was ticketed, non-copable, and I went home and broke down in my wife's arms.
I should know what the law is but its not like I live in NJ...
Sorry to hear that Magoo. I hpoe things worked out.
FQ13
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In Minnesota we are not required to disclose. If I have nothing that could tip the officer off (IWB carry, vault, ammunition, holster(s), magazines, knife, flashlight, etc. in plain sight) I make the decision on a case by case basis. If there is evidence of weapons in plain view, or if they may be seen at some point, I will be up front right away.
I have never had an issue! They ask where, I tell them, they give me an instruction or two, and we move forward. The only time an officer took my gun (he didn't really take it - It was like you asking how I like a certain gun and my opinions on it) was because he had interest in it and wanted to handle it. I unholstered, unloaded and handed it to him. When he gave it back I reloaded and holstered.
I can fully understand the advice about disclosing. I have no interest in it if that is your choice. And, I have no problem with people like MB, MJ or RP advising it. They are not only teaching and writing for a national audience, they are advising the lowest common denominator. If someone listens to or reads their advice and acts stupid any "expert" needs to make sure they have covered their own butts in all jurisdictions. A thirty minute TV program, Podcast or a blog is not long enough to educate on all the possible situations, so they must stay general and to the strictest interpretation of any law.
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I had an accident on Labor Day, hit a pedestrian in the shadow of a tree early in the morning, on my way to the range with my two oldest girls, with every gun I own in the back of my Element. It never crossed my mind to say anything to the officers and I am sure they looked in my vehicle. Nothing was said, I was ticketed, non-copable, and I went home and broke down in my wife's arms.
I should know what the law is but its not like I live in NJ...
Sorry to hear that...and that your girls had to witness it too. But things could be worse...you COULD live in NJ.
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Sorry to hear that...and that your girls had to witness it too. But things could be worse...you COULD live in NJ.
I could live in NJ, but I won't, ever, for any reason, even if the rest of the US sunk I'd live on a boat first ;D. But I do support those that are fighting the good fight in NJ, speaking of which I need to send some $ to those guys.
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I was born and raised in NJ until I went in the Air Force. All of the family I had in NJ have passed on or moved out except my brother in law. I only go there for funerals and since there isn't anybody left for that I don't have to go back there anymore.
If any body asks where I am from I tell them but in a very low voice. My sister asked me why i didn't move back to NJ. I told her if I had some terrible illness and the only cure was in NJ, I would rather die here in TEXAS.
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I was born and raised in NJ until I went in the Air Force. All of the family I had in NJ have passed on or moved out except my brother in law. I only go there for funerals and since there isn't anybody left for that I don't have to go back there anymore.
If any body asks where I am from I tell them but in a very low voice. My sister asked me why i didn't move back to NJ. I told her if I had some terrible illness and the only cure was in NJ, I would rather die here in TEXAS.
Amen brother. The gun laws, food and music are a whole lot better (at least if you live near Austin). The Texas Hill Country is the Promised Land. Jaybet, my advice? Quit trying to sell your house, put the damn thing up on Ebay and move to Austin. Take the $500 bucks you get for it and rent a place in South Austin or Hyde Park. You'll come out miles ahead in terms of quality of life. Its the one city in America where a good bluesman will never go a day without a job, and people with letters behind their names will defer to you when you say, "I'm Jaybet, and I play blues guitar'. Go West, not so young man. ;D
FQ13
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I had a friend who came into some money so one of his plans was to go to Austin and become a star. He spent two years there and performed almost every night in many different bands and situations. He said it's a bit like Nashville. There are zillions of places to play and zillions of MONSTER guitar players and almost everyone plays for almost nothing just to be there.
I'm in maybe the best place in NJ. One of the top seafood ports in the country and I abuse that privilege. It's about the only perk though.In order to leave though I'd probably have to leave the wife here...can't do that.