The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on December 25, 2011, 03:38:26 PM
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He throws like a girl!!!! :o Watch how the "instructor" yanks his butt off the embankment..... ???
Almost had a Darwin Winner... :D
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I feel bad for the dirll instructor that gets that job.
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That same thing actually happened when I was in Basic, no one was hurt. And NO it wasn't me.
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That same thing actually happened when I was in Basic, no one was hurt. And NO it wasn't me.
We had a guy lob one just over the sandbags. And also not me.
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Saw something similar in basic.
We were watching from behind a wall with periscopes..
The guy...Pvt. Sliwiski... got an ok throw close enough to the target, but he stayed up to look at it go off and the instructor needed to flatten him.
Sliwiski was also the guy who managed to have his bayonet dummy get him in the throat. Was standing next to our company commander and watched him just shake his head about it...
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We got to shoot .22 lr in basic....but then, when you're in the business of blowing crap up at distance, the hand grenade was just poor form!
Back in the day, a Battleship could throw a Volkswagen at you from 20 miles! Today, a Tomahawk does quite nicely at 2000!
8)
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We got to shoot .22 lr in basic....but then, when you're in the business of blowing crap up at distance, the hand grenade was just poor form!
Back in the day, a Battleship could throw a Volkswagen at you from 20 miles! Today, a Tomahawk does quite nicely at 2000!
8)
Navy and Air Force where great.....really softened up the bad guys so the grunts could get the job done :D :D :D
That we needed to use grenades wasn't your fault...you did the best you could ;D ;D
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Not much better over at the rifle range.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1324369038 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1324369038)
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Any body else know what "Maggies drawers" are ? ;D
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Any body else know what "Maggies drawers" are ? ;D
Anyone who spent time on a military rifle range should know....at least around the time I was there....maybe be different now.
Can only guess at who Maggie was, but you could see her drawers from over 300yds......even if they were only figurative at that time.
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Not much better over at the rifle range.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1324369038 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1324369038)
I guess when you fail the grenade exercise, you become the "spotter" at the rifle range.... ???
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I guess when you fail the grenade exercise, you become the "spotter" at the rifle range.... ???
Hell of a lot better than being the spotter at one of their grenade ranges ;D ;D
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Had a guy throw one at basic and it did not go off, and he crapped himself. No it was not me but I had to stand in line behind him on his second go around. Should have cleaned himself better.
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I've never been in the military, but does anyone ever FAIL basic training? What happens if they get a really poor, incapable guy? The DI's can only yell and humiliate him so much. Does the Army ever turn anyone away? I met up with a guy at my 20 year high school reunion, who was one of the worst I've ever seen from a physical standpoint. He had just gotten out of the Navy as a Petty Officer after serving 20 years. I was really surprised. He was a super nice guy, but in high school he didn't have the strength to do a pull up or a push up, and couldn't run fast enough to get out of his own way. Perhaps that's why they put him in a submarine?
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I think you've answered your own question Bill. As long as you're sane, check off all the boxes, and work and play well with others, it is in the military's interest to find a berth for you where you can be of some use. After all, everybody's good at something, and part of their job is figuring out what that is.
FQ13
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I think you've answered your own question Bill. As long as you're sane, check off all the boxes, and work and play well with others, it is in the military's interest to find a berth for you where you can be of some use. After all, everybody's good at something, and part of their job is figuring out what that is.
FQ13
Wrong!
Well, at least for the Marines.
One guy in my son's training platoon in boot was in hot water for intentionally breaking his hand to get out. Was charged actually, something about damaging government property. ;)
Another was dropped after six attempts to shoot his M-16A2. He just could not qualify. Since every Marine has to be a rifleman first and foremost, if you can't hit the target, the Marines ask (tell?) you to leave.
In all, his platoon was reduced over 10% from start of Boot to graduation.
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if you can't hit the target, the Marines ask (tell?) you to leave. In all, his platoon was reduced over 10% from start of Boot to graduation.
What actually happens to these people? Are they dishonorably discharged, or are they willing to tear up their papers and make like it never even happened?
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before the 1st 180 days its ELS ( entrey level speration) Its a uncatagorized discharge. basicly like it never happen, but you will still have a miltary record, which can be reviewed if you try to renlist.
after 180 days it could be either a honorable discharge or a general discharge. Generals are normally given for a medical reason that was not cuased by service. It can also be for minor misconduct issues. even if a general discharge is under honorable conditions( most are) its not the same and a honorable discharge. Atleast as far as VA rights are concerned.
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Pathfinder and TAB have covered it for the Marines. I assume the Army is similar.
Navy and Air force are probably more lenient since they both are far less focused on field oriented close combat and have far more chairborne billets.
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Pathfinder and TAB have covered it for the Marines. I assume the Army is similar.
Navy and Air force are probably more lenient since they both are far less focused on field oriented close combat and have far more chairborne billets.
It wasn't much different for the Navy in my day. We lost a couple of guys for various reasons. Considering the close quarters required aboard ship, they really screw with your head in basic. We had the physical stuff as well but no combat stuff at all.
Football practice in HS was harder!
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It wasn't much different for the Navy in my day. We lost a couple of guys for various reasons. Considering the close quarters required aboard ship, they really screw with your head in basic. We had the physical stuff as well but no combat stuff at all.
Football practice in HS was harder!
It's to be expected, Manning a sensor system, or navigating a ship or aircraft may require discipline, but they are less physically demanding than the types of things a grunt is required to do.
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For The Army:
Aside from psychological problems or disciplinary problems you had to pass some tests before graduating.
1. Marksmanship. If I recall correctly 70% hits on timed pop up targets from 25 to 350 yds.
2. Bayonet course. Demonstrating the ability to parry, thrust and stab with the bayonet, and use the butt of the rifle to in two butt strokes.
3. Physical Fitness course. 5 tests. Low Crawl, Run Dodge and Jump, Mile Run, Horizontal Ladder, and Grenade Throw.
Fail minimum performance on any of these tests and you got "recycled", which means you started over and did basic again.
We were also told you had to successfully negotiate the Obstacle Course, but I had my doubts as it was done at night and in company sized groups so it was not observed closely.
I seem to remember you could get recycled twice before you were discharged "Unfit for Military Duty", but that might have been barracks rumor.
I also found that other Basic Training camps had a different mix of the PT tests. Mile Run seemed to be in all of them and often Run Dodge and Jump, and Low Crawl.
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Running a mile is harder than it looks for most people, especially at my age! ;D
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It's been 36 years for me but as I recall, our final PT was 2 miles in under 15 or 20 minutes, 6 pull ups, 50 push ups, 50 sit ups and something else. We too had to run an obstacle course but it wasn't difficult and not part of the final.
We had one guy nearly 300 lbs that managed to finish and graduate! His hardest was the pull ups but that was the hardest for most! I actually gained weight in Boot, I used to exercise out of boredom. I wish I had that discipline today!
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As I said, its being mentally compatible and checking the boxes. The boxes are going to be harder to check in the Marines as far as the physical stuff. Just barely scraping by there would probably be considered outstanding in Airforce basic. OTOH, the Air Force probably wants more mechanical/technical apptitude than other branches. Even so, someone needs to drive the trucks, cook the food and run the copier in all branches. And that is a fine and noble thing, as without the support staff the teeth are pretty useless and the military knows it.
FQ13
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I'm sure that timing has something to do with it as well. When my brothers and I enlisted in the 70's, recruiters were having a heck of a time find kids to enlist after the Viet Nam conflict. In fact, we all enlisted prior to the end of the conflict! Like anything else, they have a quota and the bar is raised and lowered based on current billets to fill. My company in basic was mainly technical geeks and nuclear billets. Other companies were unrated squids destined for basic shipboard duties.
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Why would anyone want to be a doctor in the Army or Navy? Do they get special benifits or pay? I'm just not seeing why someone would go through all of that schooling and make crap compared to what they could in private practice?
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Pathfinder and TAB have covered it for the Marines. I assume the Army is similar.
Navy and Air force are probably more lenient since they both are far less focused on field oriented close combat and have far more chairborne billets.
I went to Army Basic in 1981. At the same time a guy from high school went to Air Force Basic. Later I got a letter from him telling me they had a weekend pass on their first weekend, and every weekend after. We got a weekend pass on our last weekend (and every weekend after). I remember thinking I signed up for the wrong branch.
Our PT test consisted of push ups, sit ups, and 2 mile run. I was lucky enough to be part of the last cycle to take all PT and PT tests in fatigues and combat boots. It was also the last cycle to be issued OD green fatigues and khakis.
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Why would anyone want to be a doctor in the Army or Navy? Do they get special benifits or pay? I'm just not seeing why someone would go through all of that schooling and make crap compared to what they could in private practice?
I seem to remember hearing something about the military paying off your medical school loans. I don't know if it's true or not, but that could be a good incentive.
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Why would anyone want to be a doctor in the Army or Navy? Do they get special benifits or pay? I'm just not seeing why someone would go through all of that schooling and make crap compared to what they could in private practice?
Yes, they get special pay, you can find military pay rates on the web. It's still going to pale to what can be made privately but lets assume they're doing it for other reasons than money! I certainly didn't enlist for the money nor did my brothers or father! The reason I didn't re-enlist was because of money though! I couldn't live on what they were paying me!
In a combat zone, a surgeon or ER doc can learn more in a year than what they can learn in lifetime.
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Why would anyone want to be a doctor in the Army or Navy? Do they get special benifits or pay? I'm just not seeing why someone would go through all of that schooling and make crap compared to what they could in private practice?
Because the Army pays for med school, or redeems your student loans. Plus there is the patriotism thing, a steady paycheck, interesting work and zero overhead or fear of being sued.
FQ13
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I would imagine there is something to be said with not having to deal with insurance companies to collect your money as well. My last primary care guy sold his practice and went to work for a company who provides substitute doctors for physicians who go on vacation. He moves around a lot, but gets a steady paycheck every week, and doesn't have to worry about anything else. Malpractice is another thing you can leave behind MD'ing in the military. They just bury their mistakes and move on.
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I would guess that most primary care docs in the civilian market don't make much more than 200K to 300K net per year. Unless you're some hot shot surgeon working on celebrities and wealthy folks, it's a good living but the malpractice insurance is going to be a bitch.
TAB has a surgeon for a wife, she probably works 100 hour weeks for next to nothing while she's a resident! Unless and until they get into private practice, who knows?
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=523864
RESIDENT
$69,903 per year
PHYSICIAN (Post-residency)
$133,816 Anesthesiology
$115,916 Dermatology
$123,816 Emergency Medicine
$110,816 Family Practice
$123,816 Gastroenterology
$126,123 General Surgery
$111,816 Internal Medicine
$111,816 Neurology
$133,816 Neurosurgery
$128,816 OB/GYN
$125,816 Ophthalmology
$133,816 Orthopedics
$127,816 Otolaryngology
$113,816 Pathology
$109,816 Pediatrics
$110,816 Preventative Medicine...
$112,816 Psychiatry
$133,816 Radiology
This includes all housing, variable, etc pay. There may be more pay for times you spend in combat zones, but not that much more. All pay is before taxes.
This info is 4 years old but considering the economy, some of these like Radiology and Anesthesiology seem OK to good, but others like Neurosurgery are pathetically low. It's pretty bad when a Pathologist makes more than a Neurologist. But.....It is the military.
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All military MDs are officers. Officers have to pay a nominal fee for their food and housing plus supplying their own uniforms.
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Considering that an O-1 makes about 36K his first year out of OCS, that's not bad for an officer!
Face it, the military pays for shit, always has and always will! When Congress wants to save money, they go after retired veterans benefits almost every time while doing nothing to control their own salaries. Nothing is ever going to change that unless the Tree of Liberty is bone dry and we've had enough...
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All military MDs are officers. Officers have to pay a nominal fee for their food and housing plus supplying their own uniforms.
I had to pay for all of my uniforms too Tom! Even the crap they issued us in boot!
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Yes, but we got a small allowance toward replacing them, IIRC it was $6/mo.
We also paid nothing for food or shelter.
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Yes, but we got a small allowance toward replacing them, IIRC it was $6/mo.
We also paid nothing for food or shelter.
If we ate at the base mess, we paid nothing. If we lived off base, we paid something because we received BAQ and BAS of about 50 a month. My last two years, there was no base housing for me or anyone really. The base was too small so I had to live off base. Paying rent of 175/month didn't leave a bunch of money for prime rib.... ;D
Rent, beer, smokes and the occasional pound of bologna was about it...
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Face it, the military pays for shit, always has and always will!
A Pediatrician at $109,816.00 a year, I've got to agree with you. That is low man on the totem pole. How can the guy knocking the kid out make 24K a year more then the guy doing the surgery on him? Or the guy doing the knee replacement make the same?
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A Pediatrician at $109,816.00 a year, I've got to agree with you. That is low man on the totem pole. How can the guy knocking the kid out make 24K a year more then the guy doing the surgery on him? Or the guy doing the knee replacement make the same?
The payscale reflects priorities. The Army needs more surgeons than pediatricins. Plus its also a reflection of the length of residency, it takes longer in some fields than others. Its balanced out by the experience you'll get as well. I would think that a trauma surgeon with MASH experience and a good record will go to the head of the line at any hospital in the country.Likewise a shrink who's been treating PTSD for 8 years would seem to have a leg up over someone who's just read about it. So they can make less now, but know they'll make more when their tour is up.
FQ13.
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A Pediatrician at $109,816.00 a year, I've got to agree with you. That is low man on the totem pole. How can the guy knocking the kid out make 24K a year more then the guy doing the surgery on him? Or the guy doing the knee replacement make the same?
It boils down to specialty. I don't know where you got that information but all officers make the same base pay. It's based on rank and time in service. Then, they add on a premium for medical/dental services and an addition 20-40K annually for specialty services like surgery, orthopedics, etc.... On top of that, they get an allowance for quarters, food, separation pay, overseas duty pay, hazardous duty pay, sea pay (Navy/Marines), combat pay, etc...
It's almost impossible to find two Officers that make exactly the same final annual salary. There are too many variables.
http://www.military.com/benefits/content/military-pay/charts/historical-military-pay-rates.html
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http://www.chacha.com/question/how-much-does-an-aircraft-carrier-captain-make
According to this, an aircraft carrier Captain earns a paltry $7,290.00 per month, or $87,480 a year. That's ridiculous considering his responsibility. Not to mention he's in control of enough firepower to destroy most nations. A Fed EX wide body Captain earns $14,874 a month in comparison, or $178,488.00 a year. The military pays $h!t alright.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_airline_pilot_earn
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The miltry pays very well now, not like it use to be.
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The miltry pays very well now, not like it use to be.
Yeah...the way it used to be.
In basic as an E-1 I was earning $87.90/mo. gross. Tale home was $69/mo....if you want to call the barracks home.
When I got out as an E-5 I was making $278.70/mo. gross. Don't recall take home.
That is a 317% increase. Talk about rocket like advancement......
I remember in HS thinking I'd be happy when I could get a job making $1000.00 a month...
The cost of a Corvette back then was $4000 and gas was $.35/gal.
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when my grandfather was drafted for korea he made a waping $22/month. he was making that a day as a union painter.
now if you have a 4 year degree in nose picking you start at 70ish a year after OTS.
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The military pays very well now, not like it use to be.
Not so fast there kid! An E1 makes 1491 bucks a month in 2011. That's barely over minimum wage.
If you're willing to stick it out for twenty or thirty years and get every available advancement, which ain't that hard, after about ten years you'll be doing OK but you ain't going to be driving a Mercedes!
My first week back in the world, working at GM, I made 500 bucks a week. My last week in the Navy, Sept 79 I made a little over 140 bucks.
I stand by my statement that the Military still pays like shit!
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I made more in a week at GM than I made in a month in the army as an E-4.
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http://www.chacha.com/question/how-much-does-an-aircraft-carrier-captain-make
According to this, an aircraft carrier Captain earns a paltry $7,290.00 per month, or $87,480 a year. That's ridiculous considering his responsibility. Not to mention he's in control of enough firepower to destroy most nations. A Fed EX wide body Captain earns $14,874 a month in comparison, or $178,488.00 a year. The military pays $h!t alright.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_airline_pilot_earn
Whomever quoted that number wasn't taking "time in service" or "time at rank" into consideration. Consider an Annapolis grad comes out and O-1, to make O-6 will take twenty five years (at least) to make Captain (O-6) than he's making way north of 10K a month, probably more. Use the link I provided and go to 0-6 over 24 years and it will give you a "base", then add all the rest. Still seems small for the job requirement but that's how it works.
Another thing, you won't find one Carrier in the fleet that's Captained by a "Captain", that's at least an Fleet Admiral billet. Anyone that commands a Naval vessel is considered a "Captain" regardless of his/her actual rank!
I have a buddy that retired an O-6, over 34 years and he's doing nearly 90K in retirement! His wife retired last year at O-6 as well. He's about a year older than I and Kathy is younger.
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I made more in a week at GM than I made in a month in the army as an E-4.
Me too Frank! My gig only lasted 88 days though. Got laid off the day before Christmas, 1979!
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Me too Frank! My gig only lasted 88 days though. Got laid off the day before Christmas, 1979!
It sucks that they didn't let you get 90 days in and permanantly hired. :'(
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It sucks that they didn't let you get 90 days in and permanantly hired. :'(
Them's the brakes! I started bar-tending after that, the money was way better and the ever changing line of waitresses made life very, very interesting!
:D
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Whomever quoted that number wasn't taking "time in service" or "time at rank" into consideration. Consider an Annapolis grad comes out and O-1, to make O-6 will take twenty five years (at least) to make Captain (O-6) than he's making way north of 10K a month, probably more. Use the link I provided and go to 0-6 over 24 years and it will give you a "base", then add all the rest. Still seems small for the job requirement but that's how it works.
Another thing, you won't find one Carrier in the fleet that's Captained by a "Captain", that's at least an Fleet Admiral billet. Anyone that commands a Naval vessel is considered a "Captain" regardless of his/her actual rank!
I have a buddy that retired an O-6, over 34 years and he's doing nearly 90K in retirement! His wife retired last year at O-6 as well. He's about a year older than I and Kathy is younger.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_annual_salary_of_a_4-star_general_in_the_US_Army
The top pay of a 4 Star General in the US Army is just $18,765.59 / month, or $225,187.08 a year. That's crap to run the whole Iraqi or Afghan Campaign. About the same as an wide body airline Captain with less service. How much does the average do nothing Congressman get in retirement for the same amount of service?
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http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_annual_salary_of_a_4-star_general_in_the_US_Army
The top pay of a 4 Star General in the US Army is just $18,765.59 / month, or $225,187.08 a year. That's crap to run the whole Iraqi or Afghan Campaign. About the same as an wide body airline Captain with less service. How much does the average do nothing Congressman get in retirement for the same amount of service?
I'm not arguing with you Bill! We agree!
Just don't trust everything you read on the web and certainly not wikipedia. Do the math from the link I provided. That's direct from the .gov list for historical pay grades in the military.
These people are not doing this to get rich! They all know they will make far more money in the private sector as did I back in the day! That's why I got out among other things.
I found that most of the officers I worked with at the time were flippin' morons! Things have changed but it still remains that it's nearly impossible to get fired and them that kiss the most ass get promoted!
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Not so fast there kid! An E1 makes 1491 bucks a month in 2011. That's barely over minimum wage.
If you're willing to stick it out for twenty or thirty years and get every available advancement, which ain't that hard, after about ten years you'll be doing OK but you ain't going to be driving a Mercedes!
My first week back in the world, working at GM, I made 500 bucks a week. My last week in the Navy, Sept 79 I made a little over 140 bucks.
I stand by my statement that the Military still pays like shit!
But all your exps are PAID! thats like making 3 or 4 times that. No housing, no untilitys, no food, no medical, no dental, no nothing.
for a young person, thats alot of cash.
so lets do some math.
rent $500, untilitys $50, food $200, medical ins $300, dental ins $50. that right there is a extra 1100 a month and trust me thats on the low side of things. Don't forget your uncle comes and takes a chunk as well, so that 1100 is more like 1600.
So let me ask you this, what other no skill, no exp, no education job can you start at 36000 a year?
Yeah, thats what I though, there isn't one. I won't even start on the bennies after your service. Nor will I get to the beenies during service. They can be 30k+ just for school alone, not to mention the other VA bennies and the "points" you will get on job apps.
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But all your exps are PAID! thats like making 3 or 4 times that. No housing, no untilitys, no food, no medical, no dental, no nothing.
for a young person, thats alot of cash.
so lets do some math.
I'm talking ENLISTED personnel TAB, not officers. And, your assuming that there is base housing available which goes away if you're not stationed on a major military installation. The poor saps in Iraq, Afghanistan and any number of other shit holes lose their quarters while in country! Their families have to move out of base housing and pay rent like everyone else!
Remember, unless you're married and qualify, there is no base housing available for lower enlisted ranks. You're generally going to wait for it to become available. One of my buddies qualified for welfare as an E-5.
I still stand by my statement that enlisted grunts are paid like shit, working for a bunch of unqualified officers who couldn't find their own ass without a flashlight who are making two or three times the money!
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The top pay of a 4 Star General in the US Army is just $18,765.59 / month, or $225,187.08 a year. That's crap to run the whole Iraqi or Afghan Campaign. About the same as an wide body airline Captain with less service. How much does the average do nothing Congressman get in retirement for the same amount of service?
I just thought of this...Barrack Obama makes $400,000.00 per year plus expenses and benefits for the rest of his life! We all agree that he's completely unqualified to be President, let alone have the ability to end mankind as we know it!
It's about the same thing with these Admirals and Generals!
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I must say I'm impressed, a video of a Chinaman screwing up a grenade toss turns into 4 pages on military pay.
That's drift you can believe in ! ;D
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I must say I'm impressed, a video of a Chinaman screwing up a grenade toss turns into 4 pages on military pay.
That's drift you can believe in ! ;D
C'mon Tom! Who really gives a crap if some Chinaman blows his ass to kingdom come? There's about 2 billion left to clean up the mess!
;)
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But it was funny to watch the Sgt body slam him into the trench ;D
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But it was funny to watch the Sgt body slam him into the trench ;D
He didn't have to be Chinese to make that hilarious!
:)
Do you think YOU were paid properly in the Marine Corp back in the 70's?
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But it was funny to watch the Sgt body slam him into the trench ;D
He was afraid he'd get demoted if he didn't. You know what a Chinese corporal makes these days? ;D
FQ13
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He was afraid he'd get demoted if he didn't. You know what a Chinese corporal makes these days? ;D
FQ13
Well, it might not be much, but he gets to share a room with 8 other guys, all the rice he can eat, free medical...which he is gonna need more of than they can provide...a paradise.
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He didn't have to be Chinese to make that hilarious!
:)
Do you think YOU were paid properly in the Marine Corp back in the 70's?
$300 a month before taxes. My squad leader (Sgt) was getting welfare and foodstamps.