The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: JLawson on September 20, 2012, 07:59:13 AM
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Offered without comment...
http://www.thetacticalwire.com/story/269586 (http://www.thetacticalwire.com/story/269586)
September 20 : 2012
US Army Awards New Beretta M9 Pistol Contract
Accokeek, MD - The US Army announced today that Beretta USA has been awarded a contract for up to 100,000 M9, 9mm caliber, pistols. An initial order for over 4,600 pistols has already been released to the company. All of the pistols will be manufactured at the Beretta USA facility in Maryland, where an American work force of nearly 300 employees has been making M9 pistols since 1987. To date, over 600,000 Beretta 9mm pistols have been delivered to the U.S. military.
"This order reconfirms the US Armed Forces' interest and support of the M9 pistol. The Beretta M9 remains the standard sidearm of the US Army", commented Cav. Ugo Gussalli Beretta, President of Beretta Holding, "These pistols will support American troops in the field for years to come."
"We are very proud to continue supplying the M9 pistols to the U.S. Army" said Gabriele de Plano, Beretta U.S.A.'s Vice President of Military Marketing & Sales, "and we look forward to the opportunity of working with the Army to improve the current M9 design with many of the existing solutions available to us in the new Model 92A1 and 96A1 pistol families".
Together with Benelli, Sako and Steiner, Beretta is part of Beretta Defense Technologies (BDT), an alliance of four leading companies unified to provide advanced products, services, in-house R&D and manufacturing in support of military personnel around the world. For additional information, visit www.berettadefensetechnologies.com.
Beretta, established in 1526, is the oldest industrial dynasty in the world tracing its roots through 15 generations of continuous family ownership. Firearms bearing the Beretta name have been sold for almost 500 years. Beretta USA Corp., a Beretta Holding company, was founded in 1977 and supplies the standard sidearm to the U.S. Armed Forces. Today Beretta manufactures, distributes and markets a complete line of firearms, accessories and apparel. Beretta also owns and operates six retail Beretta Gallery stores worldwide.
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But they screwed up by not hiring me when they had the chance.
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In Sept. of 2011 there were 1.4 million active duty personnel in the 4 major branches of the US military.
Not all of them will carry a sidearm, but 600,000 doesn't see like it would be very much over with spares.
But still, it's to many M9s....not enough 1911s :D :D
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Its still a piece of crap and has frame rail separation issues, but I guess that it does not matter and as our current Seinor enlisted leader would say. " It's good enough "
Mike Mc
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I still think they'd be better served by a .40, 10mm or .45 than a 9mm.. FN or Glock are better weapons for the environment, too.. IMO..
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The M-9 is a political POS.
I'm not saying the pistol is bad, I've never shot one, but the fact remains that for it's intended purpose it is a POS.
The Army first abandoned the .45 cal in the 1890's for the super duper .38, it was a fail, it would not stop a 120 pound Muslim in the Philippines, so the Army went back to the 45 in the 1911.
The purpose of the service pistol is to stop people reliably with ball ammo, .350 -.380 diameter bullet never has and probably never will there fore it's a POS and needs to be replaced with either the 45 or 50 GI cartridge.
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I wish they went with the S&W M&P instead. I'd prefer it in .40 or.45 as well.
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I think we're still treaty bound with NATO to use 9mm as the general handgun ammo (and 5.56 and 7.62 for rifles). If that's the case we're stuck. If not, idiots are in charge. There is no excuse for not using .45 or at least .40 if we have the choice.
FQ13
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Colt just got a contract for .45's so we must not be bound to the 9mm thing in all branches.
Richard
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Colt just got a contract for .45's so we must not be bound to the 9mm thing in all branches.
Richard
This is me flashing back to an IL class I took 20 years ago taught by a JAG lawyer. The treaty talks about regular units. Spec-ops can carry what they want. My understanding is that the .45s are going to Recon, SF, SEALS and CSARS and Delta. So it jibes. But don't quote me here. The gist was that the main logistics train would be interchangeable.
FQ13
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The only practical choices are .45 or larger.
Regardless of how well .40 may perform in the civilian world, it will fail the military for the same reason 9MM does.
They are restricted to FMJ ammo, even .357 or 10MM might be iffy at best.
Without the option of expanding bullets the best rule of thumb is that bigger holes bleed faster.
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We should just say screw nato and screw hague and go with 45 jhps :)
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We should just say screw nato and screw hague and go with 45 jhps :)
It doesn't happen often but I agree with TAB on this.
If we are going to issue 21st century fire arms why keep feeding them 19th century bullets ?
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It doesn't happen often but I agree with TAB on this.
If we are going to issue 21st century fire arms why keep feeding them 19th century bullets ?
Again Tom, you show yourself to be a culturally insensative jackass. I mean our peace loving enemies strictly abide by the Geneva and Hague conventions, therefore we must....., um, oh, wait........errr. Seriously, these treaties were strictly quid pro quo, I'll honor them with Russia, but these camel fuzzers?
Speer Gold Dots in .45 anyone? Or at least 147 grain Remington Golden Sabres in 9mm?
FQ 13 who wouldn't want to answer the question "What's in your magazine". ;)
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Again Tom, you show yourself to be a culturally insensative jackass. I mean our peace loving enemies strictly abide by the Geneva and Hague conventions, therefore we must....., um, oh, wait........errr. Seriously, these treaties were strictly quid pro quo, I'll honor them with Russia, but these camel fuzzers?
Speer Gold Dots in .45 anyone? Or at least 147 grain Remington Golden Sabres in 9mm?
FQ 13 who wouldn't want to answer the question "What's in your magazine". ;)
Culturally insensitive ?
Damn straight, I wouldn't honor them with Russia either.
I'll take every advantage I can get.
Wars aren't fought for "honor" or "glory", they are fought to kill, cripple or maim your enemies.
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Culturally insensitive ?
Damn straight, I wouldn't honor them with Russia either.
I'll take every advantage I can get.
Wars aren't fought for "honor" or "glory", they are fought to kill, cripple or maim your enemies.
Damn straight! I mean Napalm is ok, but hollow points are taboo? WTF?
FQ13
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Hate to tell you this, because it's down right depressing, but we haven't used napalm since Vietnam.
Hell, they won't even use most of the good land mines any more. :(
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The gremens wanted to ban shot guns after ww1 seems they were scared to hell of them in the trenchs. I see no reason not to use expanding bullet. even more so now with urban fighting where civis are in the line of fire. Less likly to over penatrate then ball or ap/api. now there are alot of evil things out there. That should not be used. Expanding ammo is not one of them.
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The gremens wanted to ban shot guns after ww1 seems they were scared to hell of them in the trenchs. I see no reason not to use expanding bullet. even more so now with urban fighting where civis are in the line of fire. Less likly to over penatrate then ball or ap/api. now there are alot of evil things out there. That should not be used. Expanding ammo is not one of them.
Other than Nerve gas, germs, and Nukes I really can't think of any.
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White phosporos ammo used on people.
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Willy Peter will make you a believer.
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Agreed. Dead or maimed is dead or maimed. The only reason gas was banned was that it made it too hard to fight and caused panic. This cut both ways and all sides decided to ban the stuff simply because it got in the way of fighting a war. The humanitarian aspect was just window dressing. Germs and nukes, well they're a bad idea because of the long term down range consequences. Again, nothing to with humanitarian stuff. Hell we killed a lot more Japanese civilians with firebombs than we ever did with nukes, it just took longer.
FQ13
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.......My understanding is that the .45s are going to Recon, SF, SEALS and CSARS and Delta.........
Confirmed on Recon using 1911s. The Crossfit box/gym I go to is owned by two Recon guys. They found out I shoot in competitions and we got to talking about gear. Naturally, the conversation drifted to what they use and they told me about their 1911s. Interesting stuff because I thought only Delta used them but not so....
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Agreed. Dead or maimed is dead or maimed. The only reason gas was banned was that it made it too hard to fight and caused panic. This cut both ways and all sides decided to ban the stuff simply because it got in the way of fighting a war. The humanitarian aspect was just window dressing. Germs and nukes, well they're a bad idea because of the long term down range consequences. Again, nothing to with humanitarian stuff. Hell we killed a lot more Japanese civilians with firebombs than we ever did with nukes, it just took longer.
FQ13
I made the point somewhere else that the 250,000 casualties total from both A bombs was a bargain compared to the projected casualties of 1 million US and 50+ % of the Japanese population if we invaded.
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I made the point somewhere else that the 250,000 casualties total from both A bombs was a bargain compared to the projected casualties of 1 million US and 50+ % of the Japanese population if we invaded.
One of the many reasons why "unconditional surrender" is a bad policy.The way to end a war is when the intial causus belli has been resolved in your favor. We could have been out of Afghanistan in less than a year, but W., and now BO, seem determined to keep us there till it looks like California, which will be never. We could have cut a deal with the German general staff and driven the Sovs back to their borders. Granted they would have had to purge the Nazis and end the concentration camps and the Nuremburg laws, but do you think Model and Doernitz wouldn't have jumped on that? How many tens of thousands, not mention the Cold War could we have spared? Japan is a trickier case as they were fantical little SOBs, but they sure came to Jesus quick post war. It makes you wonder, but hey, screw em, they started it, and there were even mutinies when the surrender came.
FQ13
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Unconditional surrender is frequently the best policy.
We had a "negotiated settlement" with Saddam in 91, that worked out real well didn't it ?
We allowed Germany to surrender if Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated and they were back as soon as they could breed another generation of troops.
It's been 67 years since the end of that war, 20 years since reunification, and they still are not acting warlike.
The best way to achieve lasting peace is to beat your opponent so badly that any survivors will tell tales for generations, the way the Central Asians talk about Timor the Lame, Attilla, and the Khans.
Kill the men enslave the children and rape the women then ride their horses through the burning villages.
Remember what Genghis Khan said in Bukhara.
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i-am-the-punishment-of-god-if-you-had-not/761295.html
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Its still a piece of crap and has frame rail separation issues, but I guess that it does not matter and as our current Seinor enlisted leader would say. " It's good enough "
Mike Mc
I thought they had fixed the cracking problems and now they can demonstrate 20-30,000 round life?
i keep thinking about buying one just cause it the military pistol and it is good for my son to be familiar with it, but every time I go to get a new gun I can't bring myself to pick that one over something I think is a better gun with more uses. I don't need an oversized heavy 9mm service gun in DA. And now my son has shot enough different guns to be able to adapt and overcome if required.
It did trigger the whole size adjustable 9 mm service pistol phase for those LEOs that need a gun to fit a smaller/weaker hand as it is still a large gun even though "easier to handle on recoil" than 1911. So we can thank it for that.
I have noticed more folks shooting them at USPSA matches lately.
I think that if our service members were actually allowed to carry on a daily basis then they would move to a lighter more advanced model. Funny how we don't trust our active duty folks to go armed routinely.
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Hey Jo
They may have fixed the issue with the new ones coming in the system, but the ones we have are still being inspected twice a year for it.
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I thought they had fixed the cracking problems and now they can demonstrate 20-30,000 round life?
They did, by telling the SEALs to quit using WAY over spec ammo. The "test" batch used were basically proof pressure, not SAAMI/DoD spec.
The other thing that happened is the locking block fails when not properly fitted. Most unit level armorers were just putting new blocks in without fitting them, causing the new on to flex and fail, possibly damaging the slide too. If there is to much play, or it isn't aligned laterally, it will, not might, fail. For a while Beretta was not letting unit armorers replace the blocks. It had to be returned to Beretta for that reason. THey now allow depot armorers/gunsmiths do it, ut not unit armorers.
I think that if our service members were actually allowed to carry on a daily basis then they would move to a lighter more advanced model. Funny how we don't trust our active duty folks to go armed routinely.
The pistol was never intended to be the primary weapon. That is why they are not "standard issue." MOre an more they are becoming required since everybody is doing CGB now, not just SpecWar. Therefore you need more pistols to give to everybody else. All Security/Police types carry M9s, along with Aircrew in larger planes, the rest Sig P228/M11s.
Hey Jo
They may have fixed the issue with the new ones coming in the system, but the ones we have are still being inspected twice a year for it.
More for the locking block issure, see above. Some blocks seem to wear more on one side causing the same cracking as it not being fitted correctly.
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Hey Jo
They may have fixed the issue with the new ones coming in the system, but the ones we have are still being inspected twice a year for it.
This is why I hang out here I always learn something.
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The M9 just feels too bulky for a 9mm to me personally but considering the high number of non-shooters joining the military a milder recoiling service weapon makes sense. My Ruger P89 is also a bulky 9mm but I feel it should have been the winner in the trials due to it being originally all American manufacture and more strongly built.
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Last I heard Beretta is hiring. ??? Someone put out a post recently with a picture showing the factory with a "We're Hiring" banner outside. Would not want to live anywhere near that area but a good opportunity.
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Last I heard Beretta is hiring. ??? Someone put out a post recently with a picture showing the factory with a "We're Hiring" banner outside. Would not want to live anywhere near that area but a good opportunity.
Accoceek and Waldorf (OK,most of PG county) sucks but come a little further south it isn't bad, for MD.
It looks like they need QA and marketing people.
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We could have been out of Afghanistan in less than a year, but W., and now BO, seem determined to keep us there till it looks like California, which will be never.
FQ13
I agree since they have not gotten Starbucks involved in the reconstruction it will never be another CA! If they did, they could probably get to full employment, though the thought of all those guys with AK's on too much caffine is disturbing....
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Actually, I think if you look into it there ARE Starbucks in Afghanistan.
At least at Bagram.
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Actually, I think if you look into it there ARE Starbucks in Afghanistan.
At least at Bagram.
There was a big flap about a year/18 mo ago, about them taking away the Starbucks and Burger King from Bagram and other FOBs due to cost. The argument was the contracts and logistics of getting the places set up was to high. Whole C-17s were loaded with coffee and burger patties from teh States that could have had bullets and armor. The other side of the coin was that the guys with the boots on the ground were getting a peice of home instead of Bagram Betty's wanna-be. I say it was worth the effort. I don't remember if they relented or killed the contracts.
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If Beretta is setting up in PG County MD, they won't stay long! After the tax breaks wear off, most companies desert to VA where overall corporate taxes are lower.
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If Beretta is setting up in PG County MD, they won't stay long! After the tax breaks wear off, most companies desert to VA where overall corporate taxes are lower.
They've been there for 30 years now.
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If Beretta is setting up in PG County MD, they won't stay long! After the tax breaks wear off, most companies desert to VA where overall corporate taxes are lower.
They started to leave about ten yrs ago when MD institued ballistic fingerprinting but were offerred a sweetheart deal by MSP to stay. The MSP will never have to bid for another gun EVER. Pus the US military contracts specify the weapons be built in the US completely. The expense to move the facility is fairly high.