The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: PegLeg45 on July 30, 2008, 06:47:59 PM
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This is the type of thing that gives us CCW holders (and gun owners in general) a bad reputation. When someone goes off and uses unneccessary force in a situation like this, the entire collective is looked down on as overzealous, paranoid nuts. People in general do not seem to understand the moral responsibility that goes along with owning and carrying a firearm for personal protection.
PegLeg45
By Karen Cohilas, WALB-TV
July 30, 2008
ALBANY, GA (WALB) - A Tallahassee man who shot a suspected thief in Albany is free tonight. 20-year old John Underwood was released on bond Wednesday afternoon. Wearing a black shirt and a baseball cap, Underwood walked out of the jail around 2:30, just hours after a judge set his bond at $10,000.
Underwood is charged with aggravated assault for shooting 19-year old Charlie Henderson at the Comfort Suites on Dawson Road early Tuesday. Underwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him.
Philip Colson believes in the 2nd amendment, the right to bear arms. So much so, he wears that belief on his hip. He said, "Self defense is number one and number two, I act as security officer for the store." Colson is the manager at Solo Archery, where he teaches the people who buy guns how to properly use them.
"We do have a number of people who do come into buy firearms for personal protection, both in the home and out of the home." But it's that word protection that is so tricky. Who and what are you entitled, by law, to protect?
D.A. Ken Hodges said, "You can protect your life or the life of others or you can protect serious injury to yourself or serious injury to others."
According to police, Underwood wasn't being threatened, and Henderson was actually trying to leave the parking lot where he was seen tampering with cars. Hodges said, "The court system is for the punishment of the people. Not the lynch mob or vigilante justice. Vigilante justice, especially when you're shooting someone, has serious and irreversible consequences and it's much better left to the court system."
Hodges says he understands people get frustrated and don't want the bad guys to get away, but even the so-called "bad guys" have rights. "The due process allowed under our constitution wants to protect everyone and it does give rights to the defendants." Now, Underwood, will be left defending himself.
It appears more people are concerned about personal safety. concealed weapons permits are up about 30% from a year ago. About 3500 people have concealed weapons permits. Since February, 353 people have received a permit to carry a concealed firearm..
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8763010
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Maybe I missed it PegLeg, but nothing in the facts related to the shooter having a CCW permit. If the knucklehead had received the training, he would have known better that to shoot over property.
On the other hand, being a thief and arguing with someone pointing a gun is pretty stupid too. I can hear it now: "You ain't got the BALLS to shoot me, A-Hole!"
!!BOOM!!...."Damn, he shot me!!"
Mac.
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In some states it is perfectly legal to shoot a thief OUTSIDE the home.
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I understand that it doesn't SAY that he had a CCW.
I ain't trying to ruffle anyones feathers, just trying to make a point. The point I was trying to make is that ANTI-GUNNERS regularly use things like this as ammunition to fight against CCW's and gun ownership in general.
The person who was shot (thief) was running from the parking lot and the guy shot him, according to eyewitnesses and the shooter's own statement.
"Underwood is charged with aggravated assault for shooting 19-year old Charlie Henderson at the Comfort Suites on Dawson Road early Tuesday. Underwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him. "
In Georgia, we do have a Castle Doctrine in effect. But it covers non-retreat when being attacked. Not when someone is breaking into cars.
The shooter was from Florida, where their laws may be different. So, another valid point would be to know and understand the laws of the STATE THAT YOU ARE IN AT THE TIME. Just because you can shoot a fleeing thief in another state, don't mean you can do it in Georgia.
Knowledge, when applied with judicious common sense and understanding, is a powerful thing....even powerful enough to cure ignorance....but, you can't fix stupid.
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Does anyone else find it disturbing or frightening that this ignorant little turd "teaches the people who buy guns (in the store he manages) how to properly use them"?
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This is the type of thing that gives us CCW holders (and gun owners in general) a bad reputation. When someone goes off and uses unneccessary force in a situation like this, the entire collective is looked down on as overzealous, paranoid nuts. People in general do not seem to understand the moral responsibility that goes along with owning and carrying a firearm for personal protection.
PegLeg45
Point of order.
I see nothing in this story to suggest the man used unnecessary force. The fact the police and the DA will try to make a case against him only means we hope he finds competent legal counsel and is aquitted by a jury of his peers.
As far as "making us look bad" anything WE say or do or do not say or do not do at any time, anywhere, under any circumstances makes US
"look bad" in the eyes of the gungrabbers.
It is not our job to yield to THEIR ideas of what is good or bad. OUR job is to make THEM understand OUR ideas of good and bad and threat and response so they will come to understand what is right and wrong.
Just because some reporter cut and pasted a template story about a shooting does not mean WE must all fall in line and become good little Bolsheviks because that is the way the authorities want it.
It is even worse a number of jurisdictions over time have passed tactically and psychological unsound ordinances that punish the innocent and enable the goblins.
Eventually we must all hope this becomes untangled.
Best regards,
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I think we were all commenting after reading the part that said "nderwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him. " We assumed (very bad, mea culpa) that this is a true statement. If he was trying to leave, he was most likely not a threat, unless he was trying to leave over Underwood.
Good points JohnJacob, very good points.
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Dang, gentlemen. You ruffle easy.
I'm just telling the story as it was reported on the 6:00 news.
The man that did the shooting told police that the culprit was running away so he shot him.
Why would he tell it differently when it's his butt on the line?
If the man was attacking him, why would he tell it different?
I guess the truth will come out in the wash, so to speak.
On another point, hell, I agree with you. It's not our place to yield, but to offer resonable arguments to prove OUR points to the non-believers.
But as long as people are taking pot-shots at people in parking lots there will be arguments.
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" We assumed (very bad, mea culpa) that this is a true statement. If he was trying to leave, he was most likely not a threat, unless he was trying to leave over Underwood.
Laughing out loud! You make the point well and far better than I could.
A short list of things missing from the article would include- distance, caliber of weapon, lighting, deportment and demeanor of the assailant etc.
Most of what is actually part of the article is probably because Underwood did not understand the nature of his relationship with Government Officials. I hope he did not say anything his Attorney will regret.
A short primer on how to interact with modern Government:
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/)
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Laughing out loud! You make the point well and far better than I could.
A short list of things missing from the article would include- distance, caliber of weapon, lighting, deportment and demeanor of the assailant etc.
Most of what is actually part of the article is probably because Underwood did not understand the nature of his relationship with Government Officials. I hope he did not say anything his Attorney will regret.
A short primer on how to interact with modern Government:
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/)
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/)
In short, DON"T TALK TO THE COPS ! That's what lawyers are PAID for. Even if you are stone guilty and WANT to confess to some heinous offense and take your medicine, a lawyer will most likely be able to get you a smaller dose. Thats why they are called a "mouth peice"
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Has anyone been following the story about the man in Texas who called 911 to report a robbery in progress at the neighbors house?
The Neighbors were on vacation and he saw two men entering the house through a window.
He kept talking to the 911 operator waiting for the police to arrive and when the thieves started climbing back out the window, he told the 911 operator that he was loading his shotgun and was going out to kill the robbers.
The 911 operator tried to talk him out of it but next we hear 3 shotgun blasts....and we have two dead robbers....
The police finally arrive and decide not to charge the man.
I hue and cry arises and the DA turns the case over to the Grand Jury.
The Grand Jury finds him not guitly.
Turns out Texas Law allows using deadly force to protect property and that the man and the 911 operator had discussed the law and that the man was aware of the law and acted upon it...
Seems radical and many folks would have moral issues to resolve in this situation but not legal ones.....and I bet the robbery rate goes down it Texas ....one way or another...
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But as long as people are taking pot-shots at people in parking lots there will be arguments.
For people who exhibit a cavalier attitude toward the realities of an encounter of the goblin kind we keep the Smart-Donkey-In-A-Gorilla-Suit video handy.
In thirty seconds you pretty much learn everything you need to know about threat, response and aftermath. No one gets hurt, everyone gets what they deserve and it is pretty darn funny to boot.
Enjoy.
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/smart-donkey-in-a-gorilla-suit-gets-clock-cleaned-appropriately/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/smart-donkey-in-a-gorilla-suit-gets-clock-cleaned-appropriately/)
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Has anyone been following the story about the man in Texas who called 911 to report a robbery in progress at the neighbors house?
The Neighbors were on vacation and he saw two men entering the house through a window.
He kept talking to the 911 operator waiting for the police to arrive and when the thieves started climbing back out the window, he told the 911 operator that he was loading his shotgun and was going out to kill the robbers.
The 911 operator tried to talk him out of it but next we hear 3 shotgun blasts....and we have two dead robbers....
The police finally arrive and decide not to charge the man.
A hue and cry arises and the DA turns the case over to the Grand Jury.
The Grand Jury finds him not guitly.
Turns out Texas Law allows using deadly force to protect property and that the man and the 911 operator had discussed the law and that the man was aware of the law and acted upon it...
Seems radical and many folks would have moral issues to resolve in this situation but not legal ones.....and I bet the robbery rate goes down it Texas ....one way or another...
That would be the case of Joe Horn:
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/joe-horn-cleared-of-all-charges-by-grand-jury/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/joe-horn-cleared-of-all-charges-by-grand-jury/)
And the reason he acted correctly can be discovered in this little tale from Texas a few short weeks later:
http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/home-invasion-in-texas-gun-free-zone/ (http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/home-invasion-in-texas-gun-free-zone/)
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JohnJacobH, I agree with you in your points. I'm not trying to argue against you here.
I guess one of the downfalls to typed forums is the inability to vocalize or express emotion in order to back an issue.
In my own way I was trying to get across that no matter the situation, if one decides to act with force, be prepared to be villified in the media and the courts (in most states).
I'm not trying to say whether the shooter was justified or not, I was not there.
The law is different here in Georgia than in Texas, that's all.
Know the law. Be prepared for the fallout.
Situational awareness is key to self preservation. Be aware of your surroundings and potential trouble at all times.
As someone who has had a gun stuck in his face by a man who was as high as a kite and unpredictable, and has been shot at by a mentally unstable individual who was not supposed to have a gun in the first place, and being unarmed and basically defenseless each time, I now go armed and I damn sure pay attention to everything around me (even to the annoyance of my wife).
Yes, I totally agree that we all need to be ready when the booger-man jumps out of the trashcan, so to speak.
But, one needs to understand the laws of each state where one carries a weapon for defense and be ready if or when the time comes to deal with the consequences.
So, I raise my glass of Wild Turkey, and toast to all of us, as we are in the same boat.
"May your self-defense weapon never have to be drawn in earnest need, but if so, be swift and true."
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No matter what state you are in, if you are outside your home, your safest rule of thumb is if no lives are in danger call 911 and give a good description. Stuff can be replaced, time spent in jail or dealing with lawyers can not. If lives are in danger, drop the sucker, keep your mouth shut and get the best lawyer you can find.
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No matter what state you are in, if you are outside your home, your safest rule of thumb is if no lives are in danger call 911 and give a good description. Stuff can be replaced, time spent in jail or dealing with lawyers can not. If lives are in danger, drop the sucker, keep your mouth shut and get the best lawyer you can find.
Amen!!
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No matter what state you are in, if you are outside your home, your safest rule of thumb is if no lives are in danger call 911 and give a good description. Stuff can be replaced, time spent in jail or dealing with lawyers can not. If lives are in danger, drop the sucker, keep your mouth shut and get the best lawyer you can find.
Exactly, Sir!
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Laughing out loud! You make the point well and far better than I could.
A short list of things missing from the article would include- distance, caliber of weapon, lighting, deportment and demeanor of the assailant etc.
JJH, I think you know that you wouldn't get distance, caliber, etc., in an article PRAISING this shooter.
The statement: "I see nothing in this story to suggest the man used unnecessary force." is asinine.
You don't shoot people for petty theft, you call the cops. Reserve that option for when you are threatened, not when your CDs are threatened.
People shouldn't die for buffoonery. If they did, every teenager on the planet would be gone tomorrow.
It is not our job to yield to THEIR ideas of what is good or bad. OUR job is to make THEM understand OUR ideas of good and bad and threat and response so they will come to understand what is right and wrong.
Agreed on making them understand. It is also our 'job' to follow the law. That hardly makes us "good little Bolsheviks."
If you disagree with the law, work to change it. Bypassing the legal system in this process is usually a bad idea.
Shooting someone over property is a really bad use of force IMO.
If you think it is, if you think the 'stuff' in your car is more important than someones life, the laws are very different where you live or you can count me out of the "Our" in: OUR ideas of good and bad.
Just my opinion, I've been wrong before...
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JJH, I think you know that you wouldn't get distance, caliber, etc., in an article PRAISING this shooter.
The statement: "I see nothing in this story to suggest the man used unnecessary force." is asinine.
You don't shoot people for petty theft, you call the cops. Reserve that option for when you are threatened, not when your CDs are threatened.
People shouldn't die for buffoonery. If they did, every teenager on the planet would be gone tomorrow.
Agreed on making them understand. It is also our 'job' to follow the law. That hardly makes us "good little Bolsheviks."
If you disagree with the law, work to change it. Bypassing the legal system in this process is usually a bad idea.
Shooting someone over property is a really bad use of force IMO.
If you think it is, if you think the 'stuff' in your car is more important than someones life, the laws are very different where you live or you can count me out of the "Our" in: OUR ideas of good and bad.
Just my opinion, I've been wrong before...
In some states, particularly Texas you would be wrong this time as well. My reasoning in my previous post was based purely on expediency, and following the path of least aggravation, Neither I or anyone else work and earn money with the intention of letting some light fingered piece of shit steal it. In the Marines if we caught a theif in the barracks he would be beaten half to death, and no one would see anything.
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No matter what state you are in, if you are outside your home, your safest rule of thumb is if no lives are in danger call 911 and give a good description. Stuff can be replaced, time spent in jail or dealing with lawyers can not. If lives are in danger, drop the sucker, keep your mouth shut and get the best lawyer you can find.
Who told you that and why did you believe them?
Coming on the heels of Joe Horn, who it developed did exactly the right thing with the marauders in his neighborhood based on their history and previous activities that is an odd point of view.
Florida just extended curtailage to your car and your immediate surroundings (no duty to retreat, stand your ground)
This notion that burglars and muggers are somehow innocents who occasionally dabble in light hearted mischief must be challenged and defeated.
They are invariably armed and hostile to challenge when interrupted in their activities and frequently on an escalation curve from theft to murder.
In case after case, burglars enter an empty house (no car in the driveway, no sign of activity) only to discover a sick teenager (10-12-16 years old) in bed who is then MURDERED IN THEIR HOME for no other reason than Mom thought they were old enough to look after themselves for a few hours while she was at work.
Anyone with the brass to challenge these creeps and shorten their careers is a hero in my book and always will be. I salute them.
I have lost interest in what dimwit District Attorneys and the felony enablers in the Police Department think about the situation.
When someone has taken it into their head to violently seize property LIVES ARE IN DANGER. It may not be today, but tomorrow it may be your wife or child or brother or sister or father or mother or hunting buddy.
The road to hell is paved with expedience.
Just saying.
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JohnJacobH, I agree with you in your points. I'm not trying to argue against you here.
I guess one of the downfalls to typed forums is the inability to vocalize or express emotion in order to back an issue.
In my own way I was trying to get across that no matter the situation, if one decides to act with force, be prepared to be villified in the media and the courts (in most states).
We have all been in your position.
We pick up the paper and there is some inflammatory story about a poor burglar who had a bad childhood and who is hooked on drugs and is now in dire straits because some mean busybody interrupted him/her while he/she was looting the neighborhood.
As we learn over time the reality is much harsher and more violent and uglier than the Kakistocracy would have us believe.
You titled this thread "Unnecessary Force in South Georgia"; lumped CCW holders in with all gunowners; issued a call to action to somehow stop this so gunowners "do not look bad" in the eyes of gungrabbers; and now admit you no more know the facts than any of the rest of us because "you were not there".
It takes effort to overcome the brainwashing which was inflicted on all of us since earliest childhood and learn to view the world as it exists and not as some romance the Soviet Socialist Left want us to endure.
I hope you will find the resources to challenge the life long learning habits engrained by a powerful cultural propaganda machine and come out into the bright sunshine of the land of the free and home of the brave.
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I should have added the question mark at the end of the thread title to begin with.
The whole intention was start a lively debate (think I succeeded?) over whether the shooting was justified, and bring up the difference in state laws for use of force.
It sometimes sounds different in thought than it comes out on screen.
I'm an old hand with a gun...but a new hand at this forum stuff.....I'll get there.
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I should have added the question mark at the end of the thread title to begin with.
The whole intention was start a lively debate (think I succeeded?) over whether the shooting was justified, and bring up the difference in state laws for use of force.
It sometimes sounds different in thought than it comes out on screen.
I'm an old hand with a gun...but a new hand at this forum stuff.....I'll get there.
Yes ;D
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When someone has taken it into their head to violently seize property LIVES ARE IN DANGER. It may not be today, but tomorrow it may be your wife or child or brother or sister or father or mother or hunting buddy.
The road to hell is paved with expedience.
Just saying.
The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions, not expedience. Stopping a small time thief by killing him to prevent him from doing future harm may very well be such an intention.
I believe that it is a sad and poor society where objects are more valuable then a human life, whether that be a very expensive and precious or cheap and worthless object and a very valuable and noble human life or a lowlife scumbag.
Having said that and living in Holland, where there is virtually no gun violence, a society where the people will not defend themselves and those around him/her because of fear of the perpetrator or fear of consequences or cannot defend themselves because of lack of essential items necessary for self defense, is a society that cannot function properly.
Ocin
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They are invariably armed and hostile to challenge when interrupted in their activities and frequently on an escalation curve from theft to murder.
It takes effort to overcome the brainwashing which was inflicted on all of us since earliest childhood and learn to view the world as it exists and not as some romance the Soviet Socialist Left want us to endure.
You admonish those that expressed an opinion about a news article and then throw this out there like its fact?
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.
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count me out of the "Our" in: OUR ideas of good and bad.
I've been wrong before...
Agreed and stipulated as you wish.
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I believe that it is a sad and poor society where objects are more valuable then a human life, whether that be a very expensive and precious or cheap and worthless object and a very valuable and noble human life or a lowlife scumbag.
Darn tootin right!
Any society that allows children and the elderly and the weak and the helpless to be murdered for the Five Dollars in their wallet or
the costume jewelry in the dresser drawer by predatory goblins who have the attention span of a gnat because their brains are fried on street drugs whose ingredients cannot be replicated by the most sophisticated laboratories has taken complete leave of it's collective senses.
It is very sad and unfortunate the only option left to a healthy and robust culture when confronted by these feral goons is to be prepared to use such defense as necessary to stop their behaviour and hope they regain their mental balance should they survive the encounter.
No civilized individual sets out to kill anyone. Even if they were to announce such an intention beforehand, the statistical odds it will occur is astonishingly low. Trained individuals can and have missed their targets with shotguns from distances as close as ten feet contrary to what Hollywood and popular television would have their viewers believe.
If you are interested in the reality of these topics there are many people on this board with excellent credentials who will take the time to educate you in various aspects.
But you will lose their attention quickly if you mindlessly repeat the pablum promulgated throughout the 20th Century as immutable truth.
Best regards,
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.....Having said that and living in Holland, where there is virtually no gun violence, a society where the people will not defend themselves and those around him/her because of fear of the perpetrator or fear of consequences or cannot defend themselves because of lack of essential items necessary for self defense, is a society that cannot function properly.
Ocin
To paraphase MB's podcast...there is no "gun" violence. The gun is not causal. People cause violence.....
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Darn tootin right!
Any society that allows children and the elderly and the weak and the helpless to be murdered for the Five Dollars in their wallet or
the costume jewelry in the dresser drawer by predatory goblins who have the attention span of a gnat because their brains are fried on street drugs whose ingredients cannot be replicated by the most sophisticated laboratories has taken complete leave of it's collective senses.
It is very sad and unfortunate the only option left to a healthy and robust culture when confronted by these feral goons is to be prepared to use such defense as necessary to stop their behaviour and hope they regain their mental balance should they survive the encounter.
No civilized individual sets out to kill anyone. Even if they were to announce such an intention beforehand, the statistical odds it will occur is astonishingly low. Trained individuals can and have missed their targets with shotguns from distances as close as ten feet contrary to what Hollywood and popular television would have their viewers believe.
If you are interested in the reality of these topics there are many people on this board with excellent credentials who will take the time to educate you in various aspects.
But you will lose their attention quickly if you mindlessly repeat the pablum promulgated throughout the 20th Century as immutable truth.
Best regards,
Your point being...?
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I understand the law in most States regarding (non)use of deadly force to protect property. What I don't understand is how a victim is supposed to know the intentions of a criminal before it is too late. What the Bad Guy may do during a crime changes with opportunity. That reality is the rationale for the Castle Doctrine, and valid in my opinion.
Home break-in suspect killed by police
Posted: Aug. 2 11:05 a.m.
Updated: Aug. 2 11:04 p.m.
Rougemont, N.C. — A Timberlake man suspected in a series of home break-ins, two attempted sexual assaults and attempted murders was shot and killed by Orange County deputy Saturday, the Person County dispatch said.
The shooting occurred at the intersection of New Sharon Church Road and Bill Poole Road in Orange County Saturday evening. No additional information was available.
Police from Orange, Person and Granville counties were involved in the search for Christopher Dean Trivett, 32, of Saplin Branch Road.
Police said the burglaries began Thursday after Trivett stole a car from the Wal-Mart in Roxboro. Trivett then went onto break into at least three houses between 10 p.m. Thursday and 3 p.m. Friday, officials said.
According to warrants, Trivett first broke into a home at 290 Brooks Carr Road in Roxboro while the homeowner was inside. The arrest warrants say he stole two 12-gauge shotguns and .22-caliber rifle worth about $1,500 from the home.
Investigators said that Trivett next broke into a home in the Guess Road area in Hurdle Mills that was occupied by two women. He attempted to sexually assault one woman and tried to kill both women, according to the arrest warrants.
Trivett then wrecked the stolen car and abandoned it across the street from 895 Guess Road. Arrest warrants say that Trivett used a shotgun while breaking into at home at that address.
Trivett faces two charges of attempted first-degree murder, one charge of attempted first-degree sex offense and two charges each of first-degree burglary and felony larceny.
Person County Sheriff Dewey Jones said investigators believe the home break-ins were not random. All the stolen weapons have been recovered.
Trivett has an extensive criminal record in Person and Granville counties and in Virginia dating to 2002, according to North Carolina Department of Correction records.
A Virginia court placed Trivett on probation in November 2007 after he was convicted a September 2003 larceny.
Trivett was released from a North Carolina prison in July 2006 after serving nearly 2 1/2 years for a probation violation. He had been placed on probation on July 22, 2003, for a series of larcenies and breaking-and-entering of homes and vehicles over nine days in November of that year.
Trivett was ruled in violation of that probation when he was convicted in February 2004 for a motor-vehicle theft committed on July 10, 2003.
WRAL.com.
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Your point being...?
Not all lives have value. Some are just a waste of sperm.
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Not all lives have value. Some are just a waste of sperm.
I thank the Lord that I do not believe in Him.
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I thank the Lord that I do not believe in Him.
I'm not sure I understand your meaning ?
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I'm not sure I understand your meaning ?
I recall hearing you say you are a church going person, Tom. I cannot help but wonder, what He would have to say to your comment.
As for me, all I can say is that it is totally out of line and uncalled for.
Ocin.
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What I don't understand is how a victim is supposed to know the intentions of a criminal before it is too late. What the Bad Guy may do during a crime changes with opportunity. That reality is the rationale for the Castle Doctrine, and valid in my opinion.
Exactly.
The law in most states runs contrary to long established precepts of common law that date back to the Middle Ages and before.
Before it was labeled "castle doctrine" precepts of self defense were embodied in various doctrines known as "provocative acts" or "fighting words" among others.
Your grandfather and certainly your great grandfather were familar with the concepts in one form or other.
When a burglar or mugger initiate a sequence of events, they, the burglar or mugger are responsible for all that follows up to and including their own death or the death of others.
The trouble starts when "some people" do not want "other people" to be able to avail themselves of the benefits of these precepts.
Thus when a Jim Crowe era lynch mob chased a victim down for extra judicial proceedings the members of the mob did not want to run
the risk of a charge of "provocative acts" when one of their members was shot by the intended victim. So they passed possession laws or prohibitions against use etc. intended to apply to certain people.
Hence, the racist or class related roots of most modern gun control. The mob members had no thought the laws they initiated would one day apply to their children or grandchildren.
Jane Fonda and her husband of the time Tom Hayden both owned pistols because they honestly believed gun control law only applied to "the little people'.
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Your point being...?
Okay, we are done. There are plenty of other people on this board you can inflict with your disingenous outlook.
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I recall hearing you say you are a church going person, Tom. I cannot help but wonder, what He would have to say to your comment.
As for me, all I can say is that it is totally out of line and uncalled for.
Ocin.
Not exactly, I believe in a Supreme being, I do not have much faith in "Organized " religions. Ocin, I can tell you what "He" would say about my comment. "Crudely stated, but in line with the Bible quote that "Now is the time to buy a sword"
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I understand the law in most States regarding (non)use of deadly force to protect property. What I don't understand is how a victim is supposed to know the intentions of a criminal before it is too late. What the Bad Guy may do during a crime changes with opportunity. That reality is the rationale for the Castle Doctrine, and valid in my opinion.
As if to prove this very point:
A day after the very shooting that I posted about in the beginning of this thred, in another town (Valdosta, Ga.) just south of my location, a man entered a convenience store and approached the clerk at the counter. On the store video the police said that you could see the clerk raise his hands to the surrender position (the other man seemingly had announced his intention to rob the store?), then the suspect, seemingly without provocation, shoots the clerk 4 times. The suspect reaches into the register and takes the money and turns and goes outside. He then returns inside, steps over the lifeless body of the clerk, and grabs a couple of cartons of cigarettes and leaves.
As a side note, the suspect was captured later this past week in Florida and was found to be suspected in another murder.
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?s=8763575
http://www.walb.com/global/story.asp?s=8775317
This really validates the point DDMack made in the above quote.
You don't know what's going on in the criminal's mind.
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The original post related to the arrest of a man who shot an allegedly fleeing vehicle break-in suspect. I have been looking for the darned Raleigh article from last week, but if I may recount from memory: Raleigh police arrested a total of 5 men on multiple counts of car break-ins in the Raleigh and Durham, NC area. Two were caught, followed by the arrest of three more. During one of the early strings of car break- ins, a vehicle owner saw the crime occur and hollered at the suspect, at which time the suspect shot at the car owner as he ran away.
Just because the crime appears to be minor does not mean the suspect is not prepared to kill to escape. Point being, intervene armed and from cover, or stay in stealth mode and dial 911.
Mac.