Unneccessary Force in South Georgia?

[PegLeg45]

This is the type of thing that gives us CCW holders (and gun owners in general) a bad reputation. When someone goes off and uses unneccessary force in a situation like this, the entire collective is looked down on as overzealous, paranoid nuts. People in general do not seem to understand the moral responsibility that goes along with owning and carrying a firearm for personal protection.
PegLeg45

By Karen Cohilas, WALB-TV
July 30, 2008

ALBANY, GA (WALB) - A Tallahassee man who shot a suspected thief in Albany is free tonight. 20-year old John Underwood was released on bond Wednesday afternoon. Wearing a black shirt and a baseball cap, Underwood walked out of the jail around 2:30, just hours after a judge set his bond at $10,000.

Underwood is charged with aggravated assault for shooting 19-year old Charlie Henderson at the Comfort Suites on Dawson Road early Tuesday. Underwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him.

Philip Colson believes in the 2nd amendment, the right to bear arms. So much so, he wears that belief on his hip.  He said, "Self defense is number one and number two, I act as security officer for the store." Colson is the manager at Solo Archery, where he teaches the people who buy guns how to properly use them.

"We do have a number of people who do come into buy firearms for personal protection, both in the home and out of the home." But it's that word protection that is so tricky. Who and what are you entitled, by law, to protect?

D.A. Ken Hodges said, "You can protect your life or the life of others or you can protect serious injury to yourself or serious injury to others."

According to police, Underwood wasn't being threatened, and Henderson was actually trying to leave the parking lot where he was seen tampering with cars.  Hodges said, "The court system is for the punishment of the people. Not the lynch mob or vigilante justice. Vigilante justice, especially when you're shooting someone, has serious and irreversible consequences and it's much better left to the court system."

Hodges says he understands people get frustrated and don't want the bad guys to get away, but even the so-called "bad guys" have rights. "The due process allowed under our constitution wants to protect everyone and it does give rights to the defendants." Now, Underwood, will be left defending himself.

It appears more people are concerned about personal safety. concealed weapons permits are up about 30% from a year ago. About 3500 people have concealed weapons permits. Since February, 353 people have received a permit to carry a concealed firearm..

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=8763010

[DDMac]

Maybe I missed it PegLeg, but nothing in the facts related to the shooter having a CCW permit. If the knucklehead had received the training, he would have known better that to shoot over property.
On the other hand, being a thief and arguing with someone pointing a gun is pretty stupid too. I can hear it now: "You ain't got the BALLS to shoot me, A-Hole!"
!!BOOM!!...."Damn, he shot me!!"

Mac.

[tombogan03884]

In some states it is perfectly legal to shoot a thief OUTSIDE the home.

[PegLeg45]

I understand that it doesn't SAY that he had a CCW.

I ain't trying to ruffle anyones feathers, just trying to make a point. The point I was trying to make is that ANTI-GUNNERS regularly use things like this as ammunition to fight against CCW's and gun ownership in general.

The person who was shot (thief) was running from the parking lot and the guy shot him, according to eyewitnesses and the shooter's own statement.

"Underwood is charged with aggravated assault for shooting 19-year old Charlie Henderson at the Comfort Suites on Dawson Road early Tuesday. Underwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him. "

In Georgia, we do have a Castle Doctrine in effect. But it covers non-retreat when being attacked. Not when someone is breaking into cars.

The shooter was from Florida, where their laws may be different. So, another valid point would be to know and understand the laws of the STATE THAT YOU ARE IN AT THE TIME. Just because you can shoot a fleeing thief in another state, don't mean you can do it in Georgia.

Knowledge, when applied with judicious common sense and understanding, is a powerful thing....even powerful enough to cure ignorance....but, you can't fix stupid.

[tt11758]

Does anyone else find it disturbing or frightening that this ignorant little turd "teaches the people who buy guns (in the store he manages) how to properly use them"?

[Sponsor]

[JohnJacobH]

This is the type of thing that gives us CCW holders (and gun owners in general) a bad reputation. When someone goes off and uses unneccessary force in a situation like this, the entire collective is looked down on as overzealous, paranoid nuts. People in general do not seem to understand the moral responsibility that goes along with owning and carrying a firearm for personal protection.
PegLeg45

Point of order.

I see nothing in this story to suggest the man used unnecessary force.  The fact the police and the DA will try to make a case against him only means we hope he finds competent legal counsel and is aquitted by a jury of his peers.

As far as "making us look bad" anything WE say or do or do not say or do not do at any time, anywhere, under any circumstances makes US
"look bad" in the eyes of the gungrabbers.

It is not our job to yield to THEIR ideas of what is good or bad. OUR job is to make THEM understand OUR ideas of good and bad and threat and response so they will come to understand what is right and wrong.

Just because some reporter cut and pasted a template story about a shooting does not mean WE must all fall in line and become good little Bolsheviks because that is the way the authorities want it.

It is even worse a number of jurisdictions over time have passed tactically and psychological unsound ordinances that punish the innocent and enable the goblins.

Eventually we must all hope this becomes untangled.

Best regards,

[Pathfinder]

I think we were all commenting after reading the part that said "nderwood told police he saw Henderson breaking into vehicles in the parking lot and when Henderson tried to leave, he shot him. " We assumed (very bad, mea culpa) that this is a true statement. If he was trying to leave, he was most likely not a threat, unless he was trying to leave over Underwood.

Good points JohnJacob, very good points.

[PegLeg45]

Dang, gentlemen. You ruffle easy.

I'm just telling the story as it was reported on the 6:00 news.
The man that did the shooting told police that the culprit was running away so he shot him.
Why would he tell it differently when it's his butt on the line?
If the man was attacking him, why would he tell it different?
I guess the truth will come out in the wash, so to speak.

On another point, hell, I agree with you. It's not our place to yield, but to offer resonable arguments to prove OUR points to the non-believers.
But as long as people are taking pot-shots at people in parking lots there will be arguments.

[JohnJacobH]

" We assumed (very bad, mea culpa) that this is a true statement. If he was trying to leave, he was most likely not a threat, unless he was trying to leave over Underwood.

Laughing out loud! You make the point well and far better than I could.

A short list of things missing from the article would include- distance, caliber of weapon, lighting, deportment and demeanor of the assailant etc.

Most of what is actually part of the article is probably because Underwood did not understand the nature of his relationship with Government Officials. I hope he did not say anything his Attorney will regret.

A short primer on how to interact with modern Government:

http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/

http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/



http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/

[tombogan03884]

Laughing out loud! You make the point well and far better than I could.

A short list of things missing from the article would include- distance, caliber of weapon, lighting, deportment and demeanor of the assailant etc.

Most of what is actually part of the article is probably because Underwood did not understand the nature of his relationship with Government Officials. I hope he did not say anything his Attorney will regret.

A short primer on how to interact with modern Government:

http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/self-defense-guideline-card/

http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/14/say-no-to-police-searches-really-part-v/



http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/do-not-talk-to-police-really-part-iv/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-iii/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-police-part-ii/


http://johnjacobh.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/do-not-talk-to-the-police-really/

In short, DON"T TALK TO THE COPS ! That's what lawyers are PAID for. Even if you are stone guilty and WANT to confess to some heinous offense and take your medicine, a lawyer will most likely be able to get you a smaller dose. Thats why they are called a "mouth peice"