Some People Will NEVER Get It.

[twyacht]

Unreal statements from a truly evil old fool.

http://www.newsmaxworld.com/global_talk/germany_nazi_hit_man/2009/11/27/291463.html

Nazi Alleged Killer Says Proud of SS Service

Friday, November 27, 2009 9:36 AM

AACHEN, Germany -- A man accused of murdering Dutch civilians as a member of a Waffen SS hit squad said at his trial Friday that he was proud about being chosen as a volunteer to fight for the Nazis.

Heinrich Boere, 88, made his first comments to the Aachen state court since his trial opened at the end of October. As part of that SS unit, he is charged with killing a bicycle-shop owner, a pharmacist and another civilian. He faces a possible sentence of life in prison if convicted.

Boere said he remembered his mother waking him up the night in 1940 that Germany invaded his hometown in the Netherlands and seeing Stuka dive-bombers overhead. Instead of fearing the German bombs, Boere, whose father was Dutch and mother German, said his family was elated as the attack unfolded.

"(My mother) said 'they're coming' now things will be better," he told the court, speaking animatedly to the panel of judges.

"It was better," he added later.

Boere was born in Eschweiler, Germany, on the outskirts of Aachen where he lives today, but moved to the Netherlands when he was an infant.

After the Germans had overrun his hometown of Maastricht and the rest of the Netherlands, he remembers as an 18-year-old seeing a recruiting poster for the Waffen SS, signed by Heinrich Himmler. It offered German citizenship after two years of service and the possibility of becoming a policeman after that.

He showed up with 100 other Dutchmen at the recruitment office and was one of 15 chosen.

"I was very proud," Boere told the court in a statement read by his attorney before he answered questions from the presiding judge.

After fighting on the Russian front, Boere ended up back in the Netherlands as part of "Silbertanne" _ a unit of largely of Dutch SS volunteers responsible for reprisal killings of their countrymen for resistance attacks on collaborators.

Boere admitted the three killings to Dutch authorities when he was in captivity after the war but managed to escape from his POW camp and eventually return to Germany.

He was sentenced to death in the Netherlands in 1949 _ later commuted to life imprisonment _ but Boere has managed to avoid jail so far.

Still, Boere told the court he was aware of the possibility he would be pursued by authorities, so much so that he never married.

"I always had to consider that my past might catch up with me, and I didn't want to inflict that upon a woman," he said in his statement.

Boere refused to comment on his time with Silbertanne, but his attorneys said he would address that period when the trial resumes Dec. 2.

© 2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

***

Some people don't deserve to live to a ripe old age....

[fightingquaker13]

There really are not words for this. I honestly choked up reading this piece thinking about the lives this scumbag took while wearing a swastika. Some of y'all think I am a bleeding heart liberal. You are wrong. Treason to the point of joining an occupying force and killing your own countrymen, civilians at that, in reprisals against the resistance you should have joined? If they set this guy on fire I will bring the marshmallows. The only virtue this guy has seems to be honesty. The question is if he has the courage to stand up and face the court now, where was that courage in 1940 when he should have been putting on the orange and shooting three Nazis? I am a realist. I don't really believe in heroes. I do believe that we all have to set up lines that we will not cross, no matter the temptation or consequences. Not crossing those lines under duress is what makes heroes. Where the hell were this guys lines? I mean, we can say that a pedophile has a disorder (we still hang them, but at least we know they didn't choose to be that way), but this guy? What the hell is his excuse?
FQ13 who thinks its close enough to five O'clock.
 

[tombogan03884]

FQ, You are totally off track with the PC BS.
First, If you read the article, he was BORN in Germany and his Mother was German, so there goes your traitor comment out the window.
Second, You would have seen that He was first posted to the Russian front. Fighting there was a brutal all or nothing fight for survival. The recurring theme of all the personal accounts was that no matter how many Russians they shot, they just kept coming and coming. As rough as our troops had it in Europe, in fact was mild compared to what German troops faced on the Eastern front. Being sent to the "Ost" was in effect a death sentence.
Third, He confessed to shooting 3 civilians, big effen deal.In case you never watched Hogan's Hero's" the Resistance didn't wear uniforms, they were no different than Al Queda. And before you give me that PC "They didn't cut off heads" crap, Yes actually they did. They would stretch wire across a road to take the heads off motorcycle troops and people in open vehicles. They also had a pleasant habit of throwing acid in the faces of Germans, (not just troops ) They were terrorists, and before all this touchy feely PC crap that kind of warfare was nasty, in fact, at that time the shooting of hostages was still legal under the accepted rules of warfare, just like shooting spies when caught.
Fourth, Joining the SS was on par with joining the Army of Northern Virginia, or The Marine Corps, or the French Foreign Legion (where many of them actually wound up, Dien Bien Phu was the last defeat of the SS )
This old ba$tards only sin was to be on the side that lost. To condemn him for what he did is pure hypocrisy if you are going to still Honor the Marines that landed on the Pacific Islands where shooting prisoners was common as well as beating their heads in with rifle butts. One of those Islands (I think it was Saipan) was held by over 20,000 Japanese Marines, there were less than 20 survivors, they didn't all jump off Banzai Cliff.
The reason Veterans of those type of things only talk about it with among themselves is because that type of combat turns men into f-cking animals, and those who have never even been deployed freak out when they hear about it.
I'd be willing to bet that Bill Stryker and some of the others on here could tell stories that had them laughing their butts off at the time but would make you puke, just hearing about it.
In short, Bedford Forest and Sherman had it right "War means fighting, and fighting means killing" and "War is Hell".

[twyacht]

This old ba$tards only sin was to be on the side that lost.

Granted he did what "he thought was right" from his parents, he must have known over time, the "big picture" of what the Waffen SS and the Nazi parties "master plan" was going to achieve.

That is the ambiguity towards the end of the war I have had the most questions about. The SS/ Nazi's, knew the war would not end up with their victory. The Hitler Era was going to end badly, and most, if not all knew that. From the top down.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but even after all these years, and what truth was revealed, makes me wonder why a bitter old man would "praise" his service to the SS. The ultimate solution cannot be advocated by anyone. He must have known that.

How considerate he never married, to avoid his bride the "hounds" that would inevitably catch up to him.

[bulldog75]

History is wrote by the victors. If he would have been on the winning side they would have tried the U.S. Canadian, and British soldiers and they would have cited that we commited war crimes.

You notice I left out the French, the only crime they commited was dropping their rifles and making love to a mirror.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

And again Tom, a swing and a miss. You will note that not once did I bitch about HOW he did what he did. What disgusts me isn't the fact that he was a murderer/war hero (pick your side, it all comes out in the wash). What disgust me is that he was a traitor. The fact that he was an immigrant, or the son of one, makes it worse. As much as you and I owe this country, an immigrant owes twice that. Why? We were born here, we didn't get a choice, loyalty is just expected. An immigrant CHOOSES to come here. They have an obligation to live up to the obligations of that choice.
Killing civilians deliberately ? Hey, war is ugly but there are rules. This isn't modern PC BS either. It goes back to the middle ages. Its a rule mostly ignored, but  the fact that it is a rule that we all know, even if we have to violate it due to circumstances matters. Again, thats not my beef. The problem is treason. Imagine Mexico invading and You LEGAL next door neighbor Mister Lopez, shot the woman next door for daring to resist. That Tom is my problem.
FQ

[tombogan03884]

The reason they kept fighting was because we would not make a separate peace and let them, or help them, fight the Russians who were and always will be barbarians.
Before the Normandy Invasion Himmler held a secret meeting with Allen Dulles in Switzerland, he offered peace and the removal of Hitler in exchange for our assistance against the common foe. FDR, the communist sympathizer, turned him down.
And before any one gets all weepy about "what they were doing to the Jews", I will point out that the self righteous countries must share the guilt of the Nazi's. Blacks and Jews in America and England were not treated that much better, and in Russia they had been treated worse for hundreds of years. Germany had no real interest in exterminating the Jews, they simply wanted them out of German territory. Prior to the war the US and England refused to grant Visas to Jews trying to flee Germany. The US sent back a ship load of Jews who had gotten out with the result that most died in Concentration Camps

http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/voyageofthedamned.htm

Prior to the war the Gestapo was COOPERATING with illegal Zionist groups to smuggle Jews into Palestine because the British would not allow them to immigrate legally.
The only ones that got treated like humans were the ones who had something we wanted, like Einstien, he bought his way to safety at the cost of his Pacifist principles.
Another deal Himmler offered Dulles was 10,000 trucks in exchange for a guarantee they would be sent to the Eastern front and the immediate release of 1 million Jews.
Again he was turned down at the expense of the Jews.


FQ, You are wrong about the shooting of Civilians, Look it up instead of spouting PC crap. The taking of hostages to ensure good behavior was a common and LEGALLY recognized practice. You talk about "It goes back to the middle ages." In fact in the middle ages if a town surrendered it was spared, if it had to be taken it was common practice to massacre the inhabitants.

[twyacht]

History has shown, as TomB correctly points out, the Jews were always on the back burner when it came to defeating the Axis powers.

If Hitler would have just kept the fight to the restoration of the Rhineland, after the humiliation at the Treaty of Versailles, the world would have capitulated. But he wanted Poland, Austria, Czech, France, Britain, Russia (big mistake), etc,... got the help of mini me Mussolini and Japan to sign on, and than all bets were off. Especially after Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese knew a sleeping giant was awakened, and the Nazi's were smart enough to know the same thing.

Regardless of the master plan, ol' Heinrich did join the wrong side, and had to have known at some point this is a bad idea.

To boast about it now is a mistake.

[fightingquaker13]

FQ, You are wrong about the shooting of Civilians, Look it up instead of spouting PC crap. The taking of hostages to ensure good behavior was a common and LEGALLY recognized practice. You talk about "It goes back to the middle ages." In fact in the middle ages if a town surrendered it was spared, if it had to be taken it was common practice to massacre the inhabitants.

Tom I agree with the parts of your post I  cut, about our ability to have ended the war a lot quicker and beaten the Reds too. As to the part I quoted...Thing is, I'm not sure when St. Thomas Aquinas became PC. I also doubt that the Papal Bulls prohibiting killing peasants, fighting on saint's days, or Sundays, or Wednsdays were PC either. As I stated these rules were ignored more often than not. There is a difference between custom and law. BUT, as Aristotle said, "All of virtue is contained in the law". This is a bold statement and needs to be looked at carefully. (To those who think I'm being condecending here, a complaint I've gotten, I'm not. Its just a concept that someone far smarter than me had to pound into my head and I think its worth sharing, and hey, I'm doing it for free ). What Aristotle meant was this. The virtues of generosity, loyalty, bravery, honesty etc. are written into law. The law doesn't encapsulate them fully and often distorts them (generosity manifesting itself as the wellfare state as exhibit A). The point is though, that when we write laws, even in a monarchy, the ones we remember are the ones that resonate within us as containing some fragment of moral truth. What the medieval rules of war were trying to say was basically don't kill your neighbor, but if you must, spare non-combatants. It has never been a law we observed, but its a law we remember, just like you don't hit a girl. The fact that we remember them, even as we break them, tells us that there is something there. You don't have to be a scholar of Church history or have read Aristotle to get this and that's the point. Some stuff just resonates and it does so because there is an innate sense of right and wrong in each of us. I believe in natural law as a Christian. I acept that it is the law most commonly broken. However, I defy anyone to tell me that you don't know when you're breaking it, at least in the most extreme circumstances.
FQ who will shut off professor mode and cheerfully accept the sh-t that is sure to follow from this. Sorry, my bad.

[tombogan03884]

FQ, These Papal bulls you speak of, Don't they come from the same people who burned witches, exterminated villages over dogmatic disputes, and plunged Europe into about 400 years of Religious warfare over the teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin  ?