Decocker Safety

[jaybet]

A properly functioning 1911 should be able to be carried WITHOUT the thumb safety engaged, due to the other safety features. It's possible, but not a smart thing to do when you have that thumb safety available. Since safety is #1, DON'T carry a 1911 without engaging the thumb safety.
Conversely, it doesn't make much sense to carry a 1911 with the hammer down because one must pull back the hammer to fire, which is a pretty fine motor skill to employ when you are freaking out. Cocked and locked is, again, the best method for this weapon.

The danger in carrying a 1911 with hammer down with the gun in battery is the same danger in carrying an older design single action revolver on a loaded chamber. An impact to the hammer can cause a discharge.

The perception people have about a cocked hammer is that it is a very volatile situation- touch the trigger and you have a discharge. But how does that differ from carrying, say, a Glock?  ---touch the trigger and you have a discharge. Carrying a fully functional 1911 cocked and locked has more safety features than a Glock or other similar pistol.

Carrying a 1911 hammer down is like carrying a Glock with no round in the barrel. It adds a step to your response if the situation requires gunplay. [color]

[SCfromNY]

I have confidence in decockers simply because of how they are built. I have them on my Sigs, CZs and 1 HK. I will say at first the decocker on HK next to the hammer and the strenght of it lowering the hammer made me nervous in the beginning.

Accidents will happen though. Last week at the indoor range a customers' Taurus 9mm handgun went full auto. It sure woke the RO.

[twyacht]

If one is not trained or prepared to carry a 1911 cocked and locked, than get another pistol, OR train to rack the slide, while under some form of lethal threat, and/ or cock the hammer since it's carried "de-cocked" on a loaded chamber.

With newer style semi-auto's, a Walther PPK/s for example, can be carried with one in the chamber, with the decocker/ safety, on, but will need to be "flipped off" and fired double action.,....or you can find the time to cock it first....

Pistols like the M+P, Glock, no hammer, are carried with one in the chamber all the time. "Booger hook off bang switch" really has to apply.

Level of comfort/training/ etc,... is paramount and individual.

Safety is the first priority.

[seeker_two]

Please provide proof of this statement.  All I'm hearing are crickets.....Nothing! 

Substantiate the statement or don't make comments that would lead someone into carrying a pistol in a unsafe manner.  It's not about ego, it's about safety!

I'll provide one....look at JMB's other pistols at that time period, esp. the one's chambered in .38ACP (not .380ACP) and .45ACP (that he originally sent to the Army trials.....no grip safety....no thumb safety....just cock the hammer back and fire....not unlike the SAA that the US Cavalry (who decided on the Army's pistol requirements) used....if it wasn't supposed to be thumb-cocked, JMB would have designed it like his .32ACP's and .380ACP's with the enclosed hammer.....

Another contemporary of the 1911 that operated the same way was the Tokarev....it never had a grip or thumb safety in it's original form....

[PegLeg45]

I'll provide one....look at JMB's other pistols at that time period, esp. the one's chambered in .38ACP (not .380ACP) and .45ACP (that he originally sent to the Army trials.....no grip safety....no thumb safety....just cock the hammer back and fire....not unlike the SAA that the US Cavalry (who decided on the Army's pistol requirements) used....if it wasn't supposed to be thumb-cocked, JMB would have designed it like his .32ACP's and .380ACP's with the enclosed hammer.....

Another contemporary of the 1911 that operated the same way was the Tokarev....it never had a grip or thumb safety in it's original form....

A little difference between comparing the SAA and 1911 in this particular respect. You also have to take into consideration that "gun safety" as we know it wasn't as big a factor in gun development a 100+ years ago. It didn't take long after the SAA was introduced to realize that hammer down on a loaded chamber was dangerous. Hammer down on an empty chamber for safety on the SAA was a non-issue because thumb-cocking moved a loaded round into firing position. On the 1911 that can't be done without racking the slide.

IMHO, if you carry a 1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down you are asking for trouble.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Seeker...

I will disagree somewhat in that the M1911, in it's original design, was a combination of older designs AND the Army's requirements for a grip safety, slide safety and to be carried in a cocked and locked condition.  They even required a lanyard loop attached to the MSH to prevent a calvaryman from losing his sidearm when riding a horse.

The 1911 was a design predicated on what the Army wanted to replace their older service sidearm of the day.  Browning won that battle against several other designs including a .45 ACP chambered Luger pistol.  He merely designed a gun based on what the customer wanted.

I could search and find this reference but I'm getting lazy...

 

[TAB]

comparing a 1911 hammer down to a SAA with the hammer down is not exactly correct.

on a SAA, the firing pin is resting on the primer.   thats not the case with a 1911. 1911s have rebounding firing pins,  when the hammer is down, its still not touching the primer.  to make a 1911 go bang by taping the hammer, would require alot of force.  since the firing pin is flush with the firing pin block.  I would hazard to guess that unless that the force needed would be simlar to the force need  to make the a pre "80s series" gun go bang if it was cocked and locked.    Now if the gun was at "half cock"  or the hammer moved back just a little bit, thats a diffrent story.   

[PegLeg45]

comparing a 1911 hammer down to a SAA with the hammer down is not exactly correct.

on a SAA, the firing pin is resting on the primer.   thats not the case with a 1911. 1911s have rebounding firing pins,  when the hammer is down, its still not touching the primer.  to make a 1911 go bang by taping the hammer, would require alot of force.  since the firing pin is flush with the firing pin block.  I would hazard to guess that unless that the force needed would be simlar to the force need  to make the a pre "80s series" gun go bang if it was cocked and locked.    Now if the gun was at "half cock"  or the hammer moved back just a little bit, thats a diffrent story.   

That is true...no argument there........ but are you willing to gamble with a dropped gun that lands muzzle down?

[TAB]

IMO if you drop a gun, you don't deserve to carry it ever again.

I don't gamble, but it would be intresting to take a beater 1911 and do some contrled tests to see what the out come is.

[PegLeg45]

IMO if you drop a gun, you don't deserve to carry it ever again.

I don't gamble, but it would be intresting to take a beater 1911 and do some contrled tests to see what the out come is.

I'll try to find the info. I had a book with an article where some guys did drop tests back in the 70's or 80's and got a few discharges.