Springfield XDM kaboom

[XDM9]

There is a right way and a wrong way to test loads. This person (If they double-loaded that XDM) had no right to even go into the public with that weapon. Keith and other "pioneers" at least worked safely. It's one thing to stretch the limits of a handgun, and another to be unsafe about their loadings.

Safety is the bottom line here. If it was an accident, it was an unsafe condition, and could have been prevented. If it was a gun failure, then the manufacturer should be looking at it for possible faults.

[LoveMyXds]

You know: People that fool around with these types of loadings do not belong in the general public.

That is equivalent to running around with dynamite in their handgun and thinking there is nothing wrong, or they are immune to destroying themselves, or worse, destroying innocents.

I have no use for people like that; they are an extreme danger to the public and themselves.

Just to play devils advocate, I'll say that it is plausible to double charge a round when you are distracted or you can have an equipment malfunction. Competition shooters load what we term "mouse fart" loads which are just barely charged to meet IPSC regulations. The goal is the lightest recoiling round possible. These light loads often leave the case half full of powder. Now these guys crank out thousands of rounds at a whack on progressive presses that prime, size, charge and seat the bullet. All this stuff going on and one half pull of the handle by accident can drop in a load of powder from the measure but not advance the case to the next station. Pull the handle all the and you have one cartrige that is supposed to be loaded to 75% Max pressure and now is loaded to 150%.
When working up a new hot handload, to maximize performance the smart handloader will work up a bunch of loads that are hotter and hotter. After firing each round he or she will examine the fired case and the firearm for indications of overpressure. Then back off to a safe level.... This is responsible and not out of the norm. No one in their right mind should ever desire to push the limmits and risk injury...

[Ksail101]

So you have "no use" for Skeeter Skelton or Elmer Keith ?
It's pretty obvious that you are overlooking the fact that without "those people" we would still be shooting black powder .38's and .44's instead of smokeless  powder in .357 and .44 Magnum

I dont think there would be a .50 BMG sniper rifle if it wasnt for pushing the limits and possibly exceeding them at times. I respect those that are not afraid to wild cat a round. John Taffin really made me see what you can do with a modern service pistol.

All I ask is just be a little bit careful when dumping the powder and shoot at a private range.lol. Which I am sure the Dillion people get to do anyway.

[tombogan03884]

 I know for a fact that there never would have been a Thompson Center Encore if J.D.Juriss had not been chambering Contender Barrels in calibers like .416 Rigby, and other H&H Elephant calibers.

[Fatman]

As an XD owner, I really hate to say this, but I can see a way a kaboom could have happened with the pistol not in battery.

Look at the standard ejector on the left in this picture - note how far away from the side of the slide it is.  



My best guess is the operator hit the mag release, (or the mag wasn't seated properly and dropped) and the cartridge that was being fed ended up with the primer lined up with the ejector, and the cartridge fired somewhere in the cycle.  I dropped the mag on my XD, and lo and behold, the ejector is far enough away from the slide to allow this to happen. Note the mag must be dropped or the mag itself keeps this from happening.

I compared this with my Paras, and the ejector is so close to the slide this cannot happen.

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

Fatman,  color me dense, but I don't see how this would work.

The ejector is fixed to the frame.  The distance between the ejector tip and the barrel is fixed and does not change (except for a little play when locking/unlocking.   The ejector does not move forward,  the case is dragged backwards by the extractor on the slide.  But to do so, the cartridge case must be properly seated in the bolt face, hence the ejector will not be lined up with the primer.

Help me understand what would push the cartridge backwards, out of position onto the ejector with sufficient force?

Maybe I just don't get it.   Sometimes it takes large blunt force trauma for me to have an epiphany

[XDM9]

Is the original XDM owner around to tell his side of the story,or has the gun been sent to Springfield Armory for them to complete an investigation?

It could be quite important to all the XDM owners out there to know the answer. It would give all XDM owners peace of mind, perhaps.

Does anybody know if the owner is around and sent his XDM to SA? The gun is under warranty so this should have happened.

As far as talking about "overloads" (in a reloading situation), the reloader should NOT be sidetracked when completing a reload. It is irresponsible for anyone to think this is OK.

For anyone to compare a "yahoo" overloading a cartridge, just to try it out, against an Elmer Keith, or some of the other knowledgeable pioneers who always operated SAFELY; that is even more irresponsible than the guy who may have done a double-reload.

I don't mean to preach safety, but part of being a gun owner is always operating in a safe mode. Anyone that thinks it's OK to overload a weapon, just to see what happens, should NOT even own a weapon. I am a very firm believer in the Second Amendment and the rights that are God-given and protected by the Second Amendment, BUT, and it is a BIG exception; no one has a "right" to operate unsafe.  (Flame Off)

[Fatman]

Fatman,  color me dense, but I don't see how this would work.

The ejector is fixed to the frame.  The distance between the ejector tip and the barrel is fixed and does not change (except for a little play when locking/unlocking.   The ejector does not move forward,  the case is dragged backwards by the extractor on the slide.  But to do so, the cartridge case must be properly seated in the bolt face, hence the ejector will not be lined up with the primer.

Help me understand what would push the cartridge backwards, out of position onto the ejector with sufficient force?

Maybe I just don't get it.   Sometimes it takes large blunt force trauma for me to have an epiphany

No, I definitely don't think you're dense and need to be beaten with a bat.  I remember seeing a video of a .45 round chambering, and it bounces around, it's not a perfectly smooth action. If the mag on the XD is dropped, I believe the dynamics of the cycle are changed - nothing properly in place under the chambering round, the flexing of the polymer frame could add to odd actions as flexing is considered in the engineering of the gun - but is it worse with the mag dropping? There are plenty of places for the tip of the bullet to catch and spin the primer into the ejector before it'ss completely out of the picture as the pistol cycles. The ejector in the XD sits roughly 1/8" farther up the cartridge than that on my Paras, meaning it would be exposed longer as the pistol cycles. The XD also has a more 'wiggle' room inside the slide than a 1911 - it's wider, allowing more side to side motion w/o a mag in.  And to add another variable, in the XD with the mag out, there is an additional place for things like the tip of a bullet on a bouncing cartridge to catch - on a pin protruding in from the slide release.  


I'm more saying it's not a cut and dry case to eliminate an engineering oversight and go straight to an overcharged load.  From what I'm looking at side by side with my Para and XD, I think Springfield needs to take a look at the design to see if that is an issue. I think their biggest clue would come from whatever is lodged on the breech side of the barrel near the notch - it doesn't look like a brass case - it's too flat on one side and way too thick. The bullet, maybe?

[Fatman]

Oh, and when the XDm is finally out in .45, I'm still getting one. 

[LoveMyXds]

Here's another pic that you may not have seen. It's pretty evident that the cartridge was seated in the firing chamber straight, so the ejector issue was improbable. The case blew out along the feed ramp side (bottom) where the round was unsupported. Its a classic overcharge. The Blue Gun Blog said that the gun was being fired all day without a hitch by someone with Dillon Reloading team and in the final stage kaboomed. He would not have been using high powered rounds in a match. He was shooting all day. He was with a reloading group. Does that point enough evidence to a reloading error where a round was double charged.
Was the reloader negligent? Yes. Did he make an easy error? Yes. No one other than benchrest shooters weighs every single round. If he was shooting all day he could have shot up 300 plus rounds that he reloaded the night before. The lesson learned is that you need to be dilligent and consistant when reloading.