Work for Food, Shelter and Life

[JSC3ATLCSO]

Just puking thoughts at this point while watching a special on PBS about the National Parks they are talking about the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corp) and other famous depression relief work. ie the TVA and others.  I know why they died out and that is WW2, but why aren't these such organizations resurrected today.  Being in a recession/depression why aren't we giving money to people that are doing something to improve the country?  In a time of Government budget cuts and layoffs my question is why?  Why wouldn't you keep your government employees and even hire more to stimulate the economy.  I know this may be a rant and/or beating said dead horse but it is kinda rediculous to pay off the banks and other crooks to just keep the working class down.    

I get paid quite well to do a job that most of the time uneventful, but I don't get paid for the work I do.  I get paid for the work that I can do.  When the SHTF the 4 of us that work in our dispatch center are among the best at what we do.  All of us are committed to getting the job done and getting power restored to the Members as soon as possible.  I also work on a small family farm and I don't turn in most of the hours I put in there.  I enjoy being around the equipment and I also have limited decision making around there.  On top of all of that I volunteer for the Local Fire and Ambulance services.  BUT.... If I was not where I am today or I were laid off I would go stir crazy at just sitting around and doing nothing.  How can people sit there with their hands out and not feel guilty about that.  I have never known what it is like to be on welfare.  I do know people that have been.  All of them felt embarrassed about it.  They are (I think) all back on their feet and doing well for themselves now.  

Last night on PBS there was a program on about the poverty in Mexico and what they are trying to do to stop it.  They are giving money to Mothers of the impoverished in exchange for their kids to go to school instead of working in the fields.  The kids also have to go to health check-ups and the mothers have to attend classes on making healthier meals for the kids.  They are showing marked improvements in education and health of the NEXT generation in Mexico.

We are no where near that point but they are doing something about it.  Why is it so difficult for our World Super Power Government to see this?

Again.. This is abnormal for me to say anything like this.  But I'm a little fired up this New Years Eve.  Maybe someone here will tell me I'm being a dumbass and I'll go back to semi-trolling around the forum.  I am not anti government.. Just anti this government.  1st thing that I believe needs to happen.  Get rid of all Lawyers.  I think that frivolous lawsuits and outlandish settlements were the beginning of the problem.  2nd thing that I believe needs to happen. Git rid of the current government.  3rd thing I believe needs to happen - Simplify both State and Federal laws.  Bill of rights - and 10 commandments.  (I am not a church go'er but I do believe that there are simple rules of life and those 20 are it.)

Basicly push the Reset button on the Nintendo..  

Again.  Tell me if This is just beating the horse... or if I'm totally wrong and need to shut up and get off the forum.

[Texas_Bryan]

Your on the right track, but the government programs won't bring the economy back up.  If the government pays out a bunch of money for work, like they doing now, then the money has to come from somewhere, us, and we don't have any, so they 'make' more money which is like making more stock in a company except your numbers of shares don't increase but you value decreases.  What we need are private sector jobs funded by the private sector.  And that's where getting rid of the lawyers, regulations, and taxes comes in.  Let me get back to work with out the nonsense that government and lawyers have introduced to the system, I'll have more effort to put forth towards making a product or delivering a service, and I'll have more money to hire other employees to help me do so.  Government employees don't stimulate the economy, because they don't make money.  Private sector does.  Like I tell my dad, a government employee, 'we can't all work for the government, somebody has to pay your pay check, and its not going to be you.'

And in regards to Mexico.  The government can't pay people to make long term lifestyle changes, they have to want it on their own, because as soon as the government checks stop they're right back where they started.  And if that's not the definition of government dependency, I don't know what is.  People pull themselves up out of the gutter all the time.  If you want something, work hard, treat people right, and go get it.  It four o'clock in the morning here in Austin and that's what I'm doing right now, only sixteen more hours to go today.

[tt11758]

Just a couple of points.  You draw no distinction between people who are unemployed due to circumstances beyond their control, and those who are unemployed by choice.  Those who are unemployed due to circumstance draw unemployment compensation.  This, unlike the money paid to those "sitting on their ass with their hand out" is much like the compensation paid by your auto insurance company when you have an accident.

The other point, while government projects can assist in moderating short-term financial hardship, they don't create jobs, they create work.

[r_w]

I have always said that welfare should be a works program.  There are plenty of things that need to be fixed around here....

[Solus]

The Government cannot give anything to anyone that they haven't taken from someone else first.

In bad economic times, this practice is especially harmful because they take it from those that managed to operate profitably where others failed.  

By bailing out those who failed it not only teaches a poor lesson, but takes the resources from where they will be used to speed recovery and gives them to those who have contributed/caused the problem.

Government policy and intervention not only contributed to the situation but will greatly hinder the recovery.

It took many years to overcome the effects of Government action in the recovery from the Great Depression and I fear that, with all the modern means available, any recovery may be prolonged even more this time around.

My only wonder is if all this is being done again through ignorance/stupid or design.

[Sponsor]

[ericire12]

The other point, while government projects can assist in moderating short-term financial hardship, they don't create jobs, they create work.

Hit!

I have always said that welfare should be a works program.  There are plenty of things that need to be fixed around here....

I think Reverend Al Sharpton would define that as racist

[fightingquaker13]

The OP has a point. Good fiscal policy from the government boils down to two points. Save money in good times, (eg hang on to the surplus or better yet use it to buy back T-bills from the Chinese. Don't piss it away on unecessary tax cuts when the economy is humming or go on a spending spree). Spend money in hard times to stimulate the economy, but do it in a way that ensures the money circulates (eg don't give it to banks who won't lend it or give to paper shufflers at AIG). W and BHO didn't get this.
A real stimulus plan is a highway bill, school construction, a government contract to American firms, low income housing, better emergency services or even something like CCC. Look at TAB. Hes out of business. If contracts for new school construction or building public works came up he'd have a job, spend the money on groceries and such and stimulate the economy . As a result, we would have something tangible (as opposed to a bailout) and money circulating. CCC did give us a lot, from Dorthea Lang to national park buildings that will be here till the last cockroach dies, to dams, and roads etc. To quote an Indian econ prof of mine, "My country has mouths to feed and hands to work. Give them a useful task, pay them enough to spend in the comunity and the growth becomes self-sustaining. Then step out and let the private sector do it."  There is a certain amount of redistribution, but if it is short term and designed not to be a bureacracy like the original CCC, but rather to stimulate necessary projects where the tax payers will get their money's worth, such as nice parks to visit, I'd rather do that than bail out the Wall Street rocket scientists that got us into this mess. At least I'll have a new bridge or a public library to show for it.
FQ13  

[ericire12]

The OP has a point. Good fiscal policy from the government boils down to two points. Save money in good times, (eg hang on to the surplus or better yet use it to buy back T-bills from the Chinese. Don't piss it away on unecessary tax cuts when the economy is humming or go on a spending spree). Spend money in hard times to stimulate the economy, but do it in a way that ensures the money circulates (eg don't give it to banks who won't lend it or give to paper shufflers at AIG). W and BHO didn't get this.
A real stimulus plan is a highway bill, school construction, a government contract to American firms, low income housing, better emergency services or even something like CCC. Look at TAB. Hes out of business. If contracts for new school construction or building public works came up he'd have a job, spend the money on groceries and such and stimulate the economy . As a result, we would have something tangible (as opposed to a bailout) and money circulating. CCC did give us a lot, from Dorthea Lang to national park buildings that will be here till the last cockroach dies, to dams, and roads etc. To quote an Indian econ prof of mine, "My country has mouths to feed and hands to work. Give them a useful task, pay them enough to spend in the comunity and the growth becomes self-sustaining. Then step out and let the private sector do it."  There is a certain amount of redistribution, but if it is short term and designed not to be a bureacracy like the original CCC, but rather to stimulate necessary projects where the tax payers will get their money's worth, such as nice parks to visit, I'd rather do that than bail out the Wall Street rocket scientists that got us into this mess. At least I'll have a new bridge or a public library to show for it.
FQ13 

Shit-for-brains is trying very hard to make me break my new year's resolution before I can even make it. 

[fightingquaker13]

So whats your plan, smart guy?
FQ13

[ericire12]

So whats your plan, smart guy?
FQ13

You really need to stop calling yourself a Libertarian if you are going to keep giving these speeches.....



You want Gov't to "build surpluses" and stockpile OUR money? You want them to not waist their time with "unecessary tax cuts" (which, BTW, increases federal revenues)?  How about they stay the hell out of my wallet and take only the money they need to function year to year.... How about they spend nearly every hour of every day trying to figure out how to operate on as little money as possible so that they can provide more tax cuts more often and once again...... STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY WALLET!

You want to give people busy work (tasks) and pay them with my tax dollars so that they can build a pretty new museum, a bridge to nowhere, or fancy new emergency services that will only look good on paper? How about we NOT redistribute ANYTHING and just let it all run its course. If something needs to be built, then the market will dictate that and only then will it get built. Lets take the tax burden of small businesses (where 70% of jobs occur anyway) and things will be just fine and in probably half the time as it would with Govt meddling.  

Rome is burning, Nero, we dont need to build any new fancy buildings or start more programs that we wont be able to support once the Govt candy is taken away.

Wall Street did not get us into this mess.... govt did. Govt forced lenders to lend to people that had no chance of ever paying back those housing loans.... Govt forced Wall Street to figure out creative ways to get those toxic assets off their books in order to keep their companies afloat..... Govt created this mess and govt is now making it worse.

Words to live by: