9th Circuit handcuffs Police AGAIN

[TAB]

I don't know about your local LEAs, but around here, unless they have back up with guns drawn, they can not use a tazer.  The fact is, they can be beat.  When they are beat, there is not enough time for you to draw your gun, before the tazee to be on you.

[jnevis]

Actually Tazers have been in use for most of the ten years you mention, WIDESPREAD use hasn been for the last five.

Like I said earlier, if the suspect is within Tazer RANGE (20-30ft) then they are more than capable of attacking said officer.  A non-complying loud mouth at 50-100ft is handled much differently than one at 10-20 or even 30 ft.  Just yelling at the officer probably doesn't warrant use of force, but non-compliance to commands "Let me see your hands!" "Back up and turn around!" along with a verbal tirade at 20ft, in the dark alone?  I'd prefer to have the tazer as an option.  It all will boil down to how the individual departments read the rulling and implement Departmental Policy, plus considerable word-craft on the officer's part to explain why they used the tazer in the report.  Unfortunately when it comes to that, more officers will be second guessed by the Department and be found liable or fired for something that was entirely justifialble and correct.

I read a book recently (can't remember the name off hand) that basically spells out how INCREASED Rules of Engagement, in this case Department Policy and federal case law, have actually increased the likelyhood of a lethal attack.  If a soldier or officer has to run down a checklist in his/her mind before reacting to a problem they are more likely to be injured or killed, hestitation, or bypass the force ladder going straight to deadly force, overreaction.  A set of RoE that is simple and based on self survival without a bunch of restrictions is easier to follow and is actually followed better.  The Blackwater shoots a few years ago are an example.  The contractors had such detailed RoE that they started getting hammered due to hestitation.  A few weeks of that and the next time your out instead of checking for a problem a car with bad brakes that didn't stop fast enough for you becomes a "threat" and is obliterated.

[twyacht]

Don't Taze Me Bro!!!!

The training of the officer will dictate response initiative. Lethal, non-lethal, etc,....

Unruly drunk on a Tues. at 2:00 am? may not need to get blown away for running his mouth like a drunken idiot.

Wanted felon, with outstanding warrants, with a stolen car, and a big knife/pistol?  Different story.

None of us, (unless you've been there), can dictate the level of response to a threat. Too many variables, that the LEO must be given the leeway to determine.

Pull up to a unknown car with 4 subjects in it, alone in the middle of the night, in a ghetto & drug infested neighborhood.

Until the circumstances unfold, being judgmental is very tough.

[bulldog75]

Department policy and training will dictate when it is used. My department it is right above officer presence. Less hands on and less officer and public being injured in altercations.

[GUNS-R-US]

I think their needs to be some rules for Taser use that include Physical danger to the officer or the public. Simple non compliance is not enough to zap someone!

[Sponsor]

[bulldog75]

6'6" 350 offender vs 5'9" 180 officer. Simple non compliance will get you a heap of trouble when you are trying to get them into cuffs. I know I have wrestled those types into cruisers even when you got them into cuffs it is hard. Small women are the worst. It is like trying to give a bobcat a bath.

[TAB]

Don't Taze Me Bro!!!!

The training of the officer will dictate response initiative. Lethal, non-lethal, etc,....

Unruly drunk on a Tues. at 2:00 am? may not need to get blown away for running his mouth like a drunken idiot.

Wanted felon, with outstanding warrants, with a stolen car, and a big knife/pistol?  Different story.

None of us, (unless you've been there), can dictate the level of response to a threat. Too many variables, that the LEO must be given the leeway to determine.
Pull up to a unknown car with 4 subjects in it, alone in the middle of the night, in a ghetto & drug infested neighborhood.

Until the circumstances unfold, being judgmental is very tough.

that is a very scary statement... "the police know whats best for me" 

[MikeBjerum]

that is a very scary statement... "the police know whats best for me" 

In a perfect world ... YES, the know the best way to handle you.  However, this is not a perfect world, and we must deal with officers making poor choices.  Now this brings up an even stickier question - Who should make the rules for law enforcement?  Should it be different levels of LE or should it be the Courts ...  Outside of the worst of the LEO's, I trust LE more than the Courts.

[twyacht]

that is a very scary statement... "the police know whats best for me" 

Be a threatening as****le to any LEO in any state and see the result. If your just a run of the mill as****ole, you will be booked, and processed, make bail and go to court.....

The police know what's best for you, when you never need them.

[TAB]

The police know what's best for you, when you never need them.

and that is why alot of people hate the police.  LEOs are public servants, they need to act like it.  I know several that don't understand what I'm saying when I say "I sign your check"

I deal with several diffrent LEAs on the professional level several times a month( lock outs, filing police reports for property owners... etc)  For the most part, the "custmer service" I get from them, or should I say lack there of, at the very least would make me take my biz else where, if not out right sue them if they were a private company. 

There is one agency( CHP) that I have never had a issue with.  Infact just the opposite, for the most part they have "bent over backwards" trying to help me.  Something as small as helping me get a broken trailer out of the road way, to going to a county code enforcment office and telling them to "back the f..k off"( actually words used)  Every single time I've had  contact with them, I have at the very least sent a letter to thier CO thanking them for how professional/ nice they were.  twice I've catered lunch for thier entire office after they helped me out.  So I am by no means a "LE) hater"