Bullet energy transfer

[Texas_Bryan]

Terminal Velocity

125 Gr bullet, .30 dia with a cross section of .0707 sq in at medium density air is traveling about 282 ft/second based on this calculation using a 0.30 drag coefficient. And this is assuming the bullet is falling straight down pointy end first....

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/aerospace/terminal

Might get through the roof, kill someone?  Doubt it!

I find that a falling bullet piercing a persons skull then killing them to be a bit far fetched, but for a bullet to first break through a roof...  To think that a falling bullet could break through a roof at all, shingles, plywood, more plywood, maybe a big roof beam, insulation, sheet rock...I'm going to need some proof.  And I've heard people claim that a .22lr will do the same!  Somebody f@#% up and lying is the easy way out.

Back to the rest of the thread, all the cops I've known, have been scared of a bullet hitting the first then, by way of the energy, having internal damage done, specially the to the sensitive heart area.  Clearly a bullet won't knock anyone down by way of brute force, but the internal damage done my make it hard to continue standing.  Think bones breaking, nerves getting cut and severed.

[ratcatcher55]

I think I would call BS on the injuries to LEO's.  One of the big features of newer vest is the addition of material  that spreads the energy more effectively. If you shoot an older vest and a new one over ballistic clay it's quite amazing to see the difference.
The old one looks like you hit the clay with a hammer, the new one will have a small dimple.

Doug Campbell of MSA was a Oakland SWAT cop and runs the sales and marketing of the Paraclete. He does vest shoots all over the country. It would make a very interesting show.

Typically you need to make sure the vest will stop the pistol and ammo  you carry. A very high percentage of people are shot with their own weapon.

 In 2008 there was a new National Institute of Justice standard on body armor for increased protection and longer service.

[Texas_Bryan]

I think I would call BS on the injuries to LEO's.  One of the big features of newer vest is the addition of material  that spreads the energy more effectively. If you shoot an older vest and a new one over ballistic clay it's quite amazing to see the difference.
The old one looks like you hit the clay with a hammer, the new one will have a small dimple.

Doug Campbell of MSA was a Oakland SWAT cop and runs the sales and marketing of the Paraclete. He does vest shoots all over the country. It would make a very interesting show.

Typically you need to make sure the vest will stop the pistol and ammo  you carry. A very high percentage of people are shot with their own weapon.

 In 2008 there was a new National Institute of Justice standard on body armor for increased protection and longer service.

Remember that most LEOs started by wearing the older vest, so their fears are founded in that.  Anyway you cut it nobody wants to shot, vest or no vest.

[Tyler Durden]

the news article said it was a 4 year old boy, so IIRC, up to about 5 years old and maybe a little bit older a little one's skull plates haven't actually grown solidly together .  When I converted the feet per second speed into miles per hour...well .... it was 190 mph.  I wouldn't believe it either unless I actually saw or recovered the slug myself.  Until then, I call bull ka-ka too.

[1911 Junkie]

When Davis did the demos with his vests he would place a stack of magazines or phone book behind the vest before he would shoot himself (granted it still took balls). He was just there to show the bullet would not penetrate.

Turning and shooting targets after you have shot yourself with an excess of padding behind the vest is a little disengenious.

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

Terminal Velocity

125 Gr bullet, .30 dia with a cross section of .0707 sq in at medium density air is traveling about 282 ft/second based on this calculation using a 0.30 drag coefficient. And this is assuming the bullet is falling straight down pointy end first....

http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/aerospace/terminal

Might get through the roof, kill someone?  Doubt it!

Revised the drag coefficient to .04 (pointy shaped thing) assuming it actually IS falling pointy end first and not tumbling, the speed increases to 790 ft/second.  Plausible?  Possible?  Is the energy still there?  If it's tumbling, I say BS...

Still have my doubts...

[Tyler Durden]

1911 Junkie wrote:

Turning and shooting targets after you have shot yourself with an excess of padding behind the vest is a little disengenious.

That isn't the first time some self-aggrandising or self-promoting gun industry jerk has sold disingenious "goods" to the unsuspecting masses.

It won't be the last.

Surprisingly, a fair number of gun people eat that crap up.   

[ratcatcher55]

When Davis did the demos with his vests he would place a stack of magazines or phone book behind the vest before he would shoot himself (granted it still took balls). He was just there to show the bullet would not penetrate.

Turning and shooting targets after you have shot yourself with an excess of padding behind the vest is a little disengenious.

I don't ever think Mr. Davis didn't say it wouldn't hurt to be shot wearing his vest.  He just a said you would not have a bullet hole in you.
Shooting the target after the fact? Well you know somebody is going to claim he was using blanks.

I had to listen to a drone of a sales manager tell me how much of an idiot Mr. Davis was and how his product was sooo superior in every way.
I asked him if I could shoot him wearing the Uber vest,  would he shoot himself wearing the wondervest?  Would he let us shoot the vest he had with him right then at the range? The answer was no to all. I told him until he could start answering yes to at least one of those, Second Chance was going to keep kicking his butt for sales. He took is MBA and vest and went home.

There are better vests now than the old Second Chance but the demo did a hell of a demo that anybody could understand.

[ericire12]

Two holes bleed faster then one

[1911 Junkie]

I don't ever think Mr. Davis didn't say it wouldn't hurt to be shot wearing his vest.  He just a said you would not have a bullet hole in you.
Shooting the target after the fact? Well you know somebody is going to claim he was using blanks.

I had to listen to a drone of a sales manager tell me how much of an idiot Mr. Davis was and how his product was sooo superior in every way.
I asked him if I could shoot him wearing the Uber vest,  would he shoot himself wearing the wondervest?  Would he let us shoot the vest he had with him right then at the range? The answer was no to all. I told him until he could start answering yes to at least one of those, Second Chance was going to keep kicking his butt for sales. He took is MBA and vest and went home.

There are better vests now than the old Second Chance but the demo did a hell of a demo that anybody could understand.

I understand why he did it that way and I'm not knocking him. If you shoot yourself enough without padding underneath the effects are going to start to add up.

From what I hear he was a decent guy and put on one heck of a match. Just wish I was old enough to have gone to some of them.