Author Topic: Billionaire investor's big warning  (Read 1904 times)

Johnny Bravo

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Billionaire investor's big warning
« on: January 09, 2010, 11:52:50 AM »
Contrarian Investor Sees Economic Crash in China
by David Barboza
Friday, January 8, 2010

provided by
The New York Times

James S. Chanos built one of the largest fortunes on Wall Street by foreseeing the collapse of Enron and other highflying companies whose stories were too good to be true.

Now Mr. Chanos, a wealthy hedge fund investor, is working to bust the myth of the biggest conglomerate of all: China Inc.

As most of the world bets on China to help lift the global economy out of recession, Mr. Chanos is warning that China's hyperstimulated economy is headed for a crash, rather than the sustained boom that most economists predict. Its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like "Dubai times 1,000 -- or worse," he frets. He even suspects that Beijing is cooking its books, faking, among other things, its eye-popping growth rates of more than 8 percent.
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"Bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses," he said in a recent appearance on CNBC. "And there's no bigger credit excess than in China." He is planning a speech later this month at the University of Oxford to drive home his point.

As America's pre-eminent short-seller -- he bets big money that companies' strategies will fail -- Mr. Chanos's narrative runs counter to the prevailing wisdom on China. Most economists and governments expect Chinese growth momentum to continue this year, buoyed by what remains of a $586 billion government stimulus program that began last year, meant to lift exports and consumption among Chinese consumers.

Still, betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore.

Mr. Chanos, 51, whose hedge fund, Kynikos Associates, based in New York, has $6 billion under management, is hardly the only skeptic on China. But he is certainly the most prominent and vocal.

For all his record of prescience -- in addition to predicting Enron's demise, he also spotted the looming problems of Tyco International, the Boston Market restaurant chain and, more recently, home builders and some of the world's biggest banks -- his detractors say that he knows little or nothing about China or its economy and that his bearish calls should be ignored.

"I find it interesting that people who couldn't spell China 10 years ago are now experts on China," said Jim Rogers, who co-founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros and now lives in Singapore. "China is not in a bubble."

Colleagues acknowledge that Mr. Chanos began studying China's economy in earnest only last summer and sent out e-mail messages seeking expert opinion.

But he is tagging along with the bears, who see mounting evidence that China's stimulus package and aggressive bank lending are creating artificial demand, raising the risk of a wave of nonperforming loans.

"In China, he seems to see the excesses, to the third and fourth power, that he's been tilting against all these decades," said Jim Grant, a longtime friend and the editor of Grant's Interest Rate Observer, who is also bearish on China. "He homes in on the excesses of the markets and profits from them. That's been his stock and trade."

Mr. Chanos declined to be interviewed, citing his continuing research on China. But he has already been spreading the view that the China miracle is blinding investors to the risk that the country is producing far too much.

"The Chinese," he warned in an interview in November with Politico.com, "are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell."

In December, he appeared on CNBC to discuss how he had already begun taking short positions, hoping to profit from a China collapse.

In recent months, a growing number of analysts, and some Chinese officials, have also warned that asset bubbles might emerge in China.

The nation's huge stimulus program and record bank lending, estimated to have doubled last year from 2008, pumped billions of dollars into the economy, reigniting growth.

But many analysts now say that money, along with huge foreign inflows of "speculative capital," has been funneled into the stock and real estate markets.

A result, they say, has been soaring prices and a resumption of the building boom that was under way in early 2008 -- one that Mr. Chanos and others have called wasteful and overdone.

"It's going to be a bust," said Gordon G. Chang, whose book, "The Coming Collapse of China" (Random House), warned in 2001 of such a crash.

Friends and colleagues say Mr. Chanos is comfortable betting against the crowd -- even if that crowd includes the likes of Warren E. Buffett and Wilbur L. Ross Jr., two other towering figures of the investment world.

A contrarian by nature, Mr. Chanos researches companies, pores over public filings to sift out clues to fraud and deceptive accounting, and then decides whether a stock is overvalued and ready for a fall. He has a staff of 26 in the firm's offices in New York and London, searching for other China-related information.

"His record is impressive," said Byron R. Wien, vice chairman of Blackstone Advisory Services. "He's no fly-by-night charlatan. And I'm bullish on China."

Mr. Chanos grew up in Milwaukee, one of three sons born to the owners of a chain of dry cleaners. At Yale, he was a pre-med student before switching to economics because of what he described as a passionate interest in the way markets operate.

His guiding philosophy was discovered in a book called "The Contrarian Investor," according to an account of his life in "The Smartest Guys in the Room," a book that chronicled Enron's rise and downfall.

After college, he went to Wall Street, where he worked at a series of brokerage houses before starting his own firm in 1985, out of what he later said was frustration with the way Wall Street brokers promoted stocks.

At Kynikos Associates, he created a firm focused on betting on falling stock prices. His theories are summed up in testimony he gave to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce in 2002, after the Enron debacle. His firm, he said, looks for companies that appear to have overstated earnings, like Enron; were victims of a flawed business plan, like many Internet firms; or have been engaged in "outright fraud."

That short-sellers are held in low regard by some on Wall Street, as well as Main Street, has long troubled him.

Short-sellers were blamed for intensifying market sell-offs in the fall 2008, before the practice was temporarily banned. Regulators are now trying to decide whether to restrict the practice.

Mr. Chanos often responds to critics of short-selling by pointing to the critical role they played in identifying problems at Enron, Boston Market and other "financial disasters" over the years.

"They are often the ones wearing the white hats when it comes to looking for and identifying the bad guys," he has said.
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fightingquaker13

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 12:23:47 PM »
I don't think he's wrong. Government can, and should, stimulate the economy in the short term by doing things like building infra-structure that create jobs now and leaves tangible products for the private sector to use later. I'm thiking of things like rural elctrification and the inter-state highway system. When they get involved in the market directly (making cars for instance ::)) is when it goes pear shaped. Cuba is an example. In the early sixties, Che and Castro wanted more foriegn capital. Since their only real asset was sugar, they decided to quadruple production. They called it the "The Miricale of the Ten Million Tons". They basically drafted the population to spend their weekends and off hours out in the fields, as well as just out right drafting folks. With good communist solidarity and many patriotic songs, all went cheerfully to work. ::) Unlike Mao's "Great Leap Forward", this actually worked. Cuban sugar production exceeded all records. Problem was, demand stayed the same. All it did was drive the price down and Cuba lost money on the deal. The same is true of China. There are only so many Wall Marts in the world. You can make all the cheap crap you want, but sooner or later you'll be bidding against yourself because the customer base is finite.
FQ13

crusader rabbit

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 01:44:26 PM »
There is (imho) significant probabliity that China could collapse.  Their economy is on fire at the moment--for the first time in history, more cars were sold in China in the past 12 months than were sold in the U.S. during the same time frame.  Their over-heated economy could easily flame-out.  But, I'd have to disagree with FQ, "Government can, and should, stimulate the economy in the short term by doing things like building infra-structure yada yada yada."  While electrification and Eisenhower's Highways provided long-term benefit, that's really about two-thirds of what government should actually be doing. The third is maintaining the sanctity of our borders (a job they are failing at in an increasingly obvious fashion)  Government involvement in stimulating economics always involves taking money from producers (higher taxes) and giving it to non-producers (handouts/welfare/stimulus packages) because government does not actually make anything but red tape.  In an open market, failing businesses go away.  In government programs, failing programs get more and more funding.  An obvious example is Medicare.  It doesn't work well.  It hasn't worked well since its inception.  It costs more and more of your money and mine to keep it going, and it will still be upsidedown in a couple of years because pyramid schemes MUST fail.  Ask Bernie Madoff about that.  Government can stimulate the economy by reducing taxes on businesses and individuals.  It has worked every time it has been tried.  The other way results only in a redistribution of wealth until the real wealth is exhausted and everyone is equally broke.  And that has never been a very good outcome.
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Rastus

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 01:56:32 PM »
........  The other way results only in a redistribution of wealth until the real wealth is exhausted and everyone is equally broke.  And that has never been a very good outcome.

Except for the priviledged few...people like Pelosi, Reid, Obama...you know...the ruling class.  Like the rich ones who got our tax money funneled to their bank holding companies instead of going under and the banks going to the lender as the collateral they were. 

You and I are on the same page...I just wanted to complete the thought.
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tombogan03884

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 03:57:55 PM »
I don't think he's wrong. Government can, and should, stimulate the economy in the short term by doing things like building infra-structure that create jobs now and leaves tangible products for the private sector to use later. I'm thiking of things like rural elctrification and the inter-state highway system. When they get involved in the market directly (making cars for instance ::)) is when it goes pear shaped. Cuba is an example. In the early sixties, Che and Castro wanted more foriegn capital. Since their only real asset was sugar, they decided to quadruple production. They called it the "The Miricale of the Ten Million Tons". They basically drafted the population to spend their weekends and off hours out in the fields, as well as just out right drafting folks. With good communist solidarity and many patriotic songs, all went cheerfully to work. ::) Unlike Mao's "Great Leap Forward", this actually worked. Cuban sugar production exceeded all records. Problem was, demand stayed the same. All it did was drive the price down and Cuba lost money on the deal. The same is true of China. There are only so many Wall Marts in the world. You can make all the cheap crap you want, but sooner or later you'll be bidding against yourself because the customer base is finite.
FQ13

This is another example of you being  "indoctrinated" instead of "educated".  Even FDR's economic advisers admitted that his Govt spending plans were a waste of money as far as stimulating the economy. Look at Japan, they tried 8 stimulus plans, going so far as to pave over ocean (Tokyo Airport ) and all they did was increase the national debt from 25% of GDP to almost 100% of GDP .
The high way system on the other hand was a military program undertaken during a time of prosperity.

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:16:27 PM »

twyacht

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Re: Billionaire investor's big warning
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2010, 04:58:50 PM »
China has one thing that the United States does not:

Millions and millions that will do anything in the way of a job. Not a gov't job, but an unyielding fundamental work ethic. Moreover, WE keep buying their crap.

Plus they can call their debt and make our economy enter a stagflation, or worse, hyperinflation. Our fiscal policies over many decades have prostituted ourselves to China, and they know it.

Why was the Empire State Bldg. lit up in Red again??? They don;t need to beat us militarily, they can do it economically.

China doesn't have to worry about the "private sector"....

The true capitalist market, is not hindered by gov't. It is unleashed. BUT our current admin, doesn't see it that way.

We have nannies instead.  Hugo Chavez just ordered the devaluation of the currency 50%, check Drudge.

If our dollar devalues and interest rates go up (which they are expected to this year), watch what happens.

To offset this, keep stocking up on ammo.
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

 

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