Downrange training

[ske1eter]

It was an interesting episode the past week on SWAT Magazine TV when the question of whether downrange training (may have the term wrong) was proper or not. I have attended one of the training classes where we did indeed go "downrange". Though it was quite a departure from what most are given for safe range practices during training I never felt in any sort of danger. Every one off the rules of safe gun handling were observed. All students were given the opportunity to participate under their own accord and no one that chose to avoid this facet of training was going to chastised or demeaned in any way. At no point in the training did I did I believe that I put anyone else in danger. Yes, there have been some sensational video placed on YouTube to try and bias the sheep's opinion. Indeed, the subject is controversial but that may be what makes it worthwhile. Though the "poll" amongst the expert didn't make the practice appear very popular, I do appreciate that SWAT Magazine TV broached the subject. This alone makes the program worth watching.

[tombogan03884]

 It has no value, it is nothing but unsafe grandstanding designed to part gullible people from their money.

[ske1eter]

It has no value, it is nothing but unsafe grandstanding designed to part gullible people from their money.

That's a very interesting comment given that I didn't know what I was getting into when I signed up for the class. Gullible, according to your vernacular I suppose.

[garand4life]

I haven't been through any of these kind of courses but I have had the fortune to observe. If you are someone in a career that requires being shot at and shooting back especially in a team surrounding then I can see the viability of this kind of training. Due to the fact that in the field your reaction to a lethal threat could require you to take actions that aren't "SAFE". Train as you fight. In this case you can simulate many scenarios that a square range practice can't.

[tombogan03884]

 If you want to get shot at go to Afghanistan, They make it realistic, they ARE trying to hit you. If you need to do Force on force training, use air soft or simunitions and do REAL training.
Being down range when others are shooting is how that US Marshal got himself killed at Ruby Ridge.

[Sponsor]

[fightingquaker13]

If you want to get shot at go to Afghanistan, They make it realistic, they ARE trying to hit you. If you need to do Force on force training, use air soft or simunitions and do REAL training.
Being down range when others are shooting is how that US Marshal got himself killed at Ruby Ridge.

+10. Its just stupid. What's the point? You aren't really afraid, because you know they aren't trying to hit you. The only fear is the "oops" factor, in which case you get nominated for a Darwin Award. Thing is, I played this game in ROTC where we had to low crawl under wire with someone firing an M-60 over our heads. The noise and tracers were distracting, but fear? Not so much. Frankly I think you get better training in adreneline control playing paintball. There you really do worry about getting hit, and you have to shoot faster and straighter than the other guy to win. Plus, there's the whole not getting killed by a dumbass factor.....
FQ13 who sees this as a classic example of "hold my beer and watch this". I'll pass.

[bulldog75]

Seen the training and I will not participate. I have seen enough oh crap things happen not to do that. I do not see the value of it. Like Tom said go to Afghanistan and that is as real as it gets.

[Rob Pincus]

Thanks for your thoughts about the show, Ske.

Unfortunately, not everyone has seen the piece we did. If nothing else, I think that the "panel of experts" as a group made it clear that there is a big difference between putting a novice downrange as part of a 2 day pistol course and have SWAT Team members in front of a 180 degree line while training for team ops in a house.

In your case, I don't know what the "point" of the drill was supposed to be, but if you weren't ever scared you can can't claim "acclimating to the conditions of combat" or whatever as the point. In that case, there is no reason for the danger of the drill, IMO. If there was something else that was supposed to be happening, let us know. In fact, an exact description of the drill and circumstances of your "downrange" experience would be great.

-RJP

[ratcatcher55]

I would let the SAS do their famous live fire hostage rescue by shooting targets around me. I'll pass on anybody less qualified winging rounds around me.

I can see the value of hearing shots go by you as a form of stress harding but the risk to reward is not there for me. I have had people shoot in my general direction without much chance of hitting me and found it sort of funny. I doubt I would have laughed if the rounds were impacting around me.

[2HOW]

+10. Its just stupid. What's the point? You aren't really afraid, because you know they aren't trying to hit you. The only fear is the "oops" factor, in which case you get nominated for a Darwin Award. Thing is, I played this game in ROTC where we had to low crawl under wire with someone firing an M-60 over our heads. The noise and tracers were distracting, but fear? Not so much. Frankly I think you get better training in adreneline control playing paintball. There you really do worry about getting hit, and you have to shoot faster and straighter than the other guy to win. Plus, there's the whole not getting killed by a dumbass factor.....
FQ13 who sees this as a classic example of "hold my beer and watch this". I'll pass.

Gee I actually agree with these guys. A general once said,"there is nothing we do in peace time that should cost a man his life"