TACTICAL LEVER ACTION

[keithm]

Keithm,

There is the fact that MANY of us have lever guns and for what ever reasons don't have AR/AK type guns.  We would like to use what we have and and are comfortable with to the best of our and it's ability.

I sort-of conceded this point in my original "boat-rocking" post.  And some of you have talked about the legality of it.  And how the plaintiff's or prosecuting attorney will spin the use of an AR.  Have you considered that a lever gun with rails containing an appliance store might elicit the same type of legal attack?   "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please direct your attention to exhibit A.  Exhibit A is a standard model 94 lever action rifle as purchased recently at Wal Mart.  Now look at Exhibit B, which was used by the defendant to shoot Mr. Smith three times.  Let's list all of the modifications the defendant made to this rifle to make it a more effective killing machine...."  Etc...  Should we allow this legal threat to cower us into defending our homes with single-shot break-rifles?  I tend to (mostly) disregard these legal threats (all due deferences to Mr. Ayoob) and choose the best tool for the job at hand.

My original premise was that for every tactical function I can imagine, a more modern, or better suited tool exists.  Many of you brought up home defense, and specifically (I think) .44 mag in a lever gun.  But, why not the 12ga?  The 20 ga?  Me?  I'm probably going to be using a handgun, or possibly a 12ga in the house.  I can't imagine where a lever-action rifle has any tactical advantage in the home for defense over an 18" 12ga. 

Now, I have to concede the point, that if a person has been firing lever guns their whole life, and that's what they're familiar with, it's probably the very best choice for them.  I've always said that the best defensive firearm is the one that you shoot best.  And if that's a lever-rifle, it's the right choice.   I also have to concede that it may be a very good all-around choice for those of us that live in less free states.  But barring those two conditions, I can't think of an application where a lever rifle is not outdated by superior designs.

[Hazcat]

As I said before, it is what we have.  You keep bringing up other weapons, well some of us don't have them.. My 12 gauge has a 26inch barrel.  My 30-06 is a 22inch barrel bolt action.  So my 18inch lever is my best choise.

OK??

[jaybet]

It really is true that we should not allow spin doctors to limit our right about what weapons we keep or use. Unfortunately I gun fight comes in three parts. The first part is preparation- your weapon(s) of choice, training, detailing and maintenance, etc. There is a lot just to that phase- a prosecutor can take your proud customization of your weapon and turn that into proof of your lunacy. Second is when the shooting starts- you either win that battle or not. Phase three is your arrest and trial. You have to think about, plan, and train for phase 3 just as much as the other parts, because it will be just as critical to your well being.
If your quaint old Puma or Henry lever action warms the cockles of the jury's heart, you might be way better off than if they are shown a weapon that reminds them of the sniper in "The Jerk".
Live to fight another day.
If everything goes to hell, bring those ARs out! There won't be any prosecutors to muddy up your phase 3.

[keithm]

As I said before, it is what we have.  You keep bringing up other weapons, well some of us don't have them.. My 12 gauge has a 26inch barrel.  My 30-06 is a 22inch barrel bolt action.  So my 18inch lever is my best choise.

OK??

This is a point I've now conceded twice.   My initial post in this thread, and then again in my second post in this thread.  Though, one might start totaling the cost of the accessories/mods one puts on a lever, and come up with enough to buy a used 870 or Nova, no?  But then, you just wind up buying many of those same accessories for the 870.

Again, for the third time, if a lever's all you have, or if it's what you're most familiar with it's probably the right choice for you..

Edited to add:

While it might be the right choice for you, I don't think it's the best choice.  In an objective comparison, assuming equal availability and familiarity, the lever just doesn't stand up.  The only quantifiable reason anyone's come up in this thread for the lever as a tactical/defense rifle is fear of lawyers. 

[tombogan03884]

As far as I can see, If you live in town ANY rifle is a lousy choice for self defense from a legalistic stand point. Due to higher velocity, greater penatration, and much longer range, any prosecutor worth his pay will argue that you were indifferant to the safety of your neighbors due to the danger of over penetration or misses going astray. In that scenario the only advantage of a rifle is the option of "butt stroking" rather than shooting some one. If you live in a more rural setting obviously this does not apply as you are just as likely to be shooting at a critter. In that case the best firearm for the home probably is a rifle, though I would still want to be VERY careful of my back ground. I must say that far to many people talking about "home defense" seem to forget that there is a whole world outside those walls (which will NOT stop most pistol rounds)
Bottom line is learn to do what you have to with what you have, just like concealed carry the one in hand is far more effective than the one in the gun safe.

[Sponsor]

[keithm]

Excellent point tom. 

[texcaliber]

I have stayed silient long enough.........if its a "tactical LEVER action" then why not the lever action shotgun? There is a very tough modern make to trickout to your specs. from Norinco 87W 12g Cowboy Lever Shotgun Walnut Stock 20" barrel

Now the point of blaspheme is............

Chance favors the prepaired mind,
if you win the gun fight and spend the rest of your life in jail..................did you really win?

but this is just my opinion

.................I am quoting MB here with a big ol' "Bullshit" man.  There is not a harsh enough penalty or sentance the court system or my fellow man could impose upon me to allow harm to befall my family and not do anything within my means to prevent it. N O N E ! The "BIG GUY" Himself would be the only concern at the "scales of justice" and I will state my case and willingly 2X my punishment to spare a hair of my girls.


So in the statement

Now turn back to the Tatical lever gun. Just picture what that court room would be like.......its AMERICAS #1 hunting rifle, John Wyane (and American hero) used one, it cant fire 400 rnds per minute, no 100 rnd drum or 30 rnd babanna clips, no evil pistol grip or evil bayonet lug. and the person that broke into your house is a criminal that wanted to cause your family harm and you defended yourself with a "HUNTING RIFLE" or "DEER GUN" the same one your grandfathers use to use.

Chance favors the prepaired mind,
if you win the gun fight and spend the rest of your life in jail..................did you really win?

I win the fight and lose the war..............did I win? YES, if the girls are ok due to my USING a BLACK,EVIL,HATED, F E A R E D rifle! and I will be thanking God for the invention.

NOW THIS IS MY OPINION! YOU CAN HAVE YOURS. But when you have a loved one, family, friend and/or a fricking pet/in-law that you could of saved/helped by using the best tool at hand.......but chose the less scary lever gun. You think jail is the worst possible punishment then?   NOT EVEN CLOSE MAN!
This is were I stand.......with my GLOCK/870/AR system. With the "edged" backup system in place for the "J.I.C." with the only future improvement being more training and better cellphones.

tex

[tombogan03884]

Norinco anything is scarce and overpriced due to rarity. They have not been allowed to import to the US for about 10 years, since they got caught selling Scud missles to N. Korea

[texcaliber]

Norinco anything is scarce and overpriced due to rarity. They have not been allowed to import to the US for about 10 years, since they got caught selling Scud missles to N. Korea

still less then the WIN.1887 LEVER SHOTGUN

[Ron J]

I agree with other writers on this thread ...  a lever gun can be a great tactical weapon.  No, I have not watched one-too-many episodes of "The Rifleman".  A lever gun is quick, hard hitting and very unassuming. 

While I have a Winchester Trapper in 44 magnum that has the sweetest/slickest action along with a Williams receiver sight (works like a ghost ring), over the last few years, I have been thinking of having Brockman (http://www.brockmansrifles.com) put together a Marlin Guide Gun for me.  Ghost ring sight, extended (six round) magazine tube and a large glove-loop lever ... this gun would be capable of dropping anything on this planet. 

Sure, it's possible to argue that a 45-70 is a bit much (if there is such a thing) for a "Home-D" or tactical weapon.  Probably not all that very ofen that one needs to knock a pick-up truck ass over tea kettle.  All the same, a "black" 45-70 lever gun would be so very cool to have!