Author Topic: The guns of Appleseed (Read 4893 times)

2HOW · « **on:** February 10, 2010, 01:01:59 PM »

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2010/02/06/the-guns-of-appleseed/

Bidah · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:00:26 PM »

Spot on as I would expect. I have built 3 LTR's (Liberty Training Rifles) from 10/22 beginnings, and one from a Remington 597. The Marlin 60 magazine fed is becoming more popular due to it costs less than the Ruger.

-Bidah

2HOW · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:39:41 PM »

Looks like Mas has gotten on board. Weve been talking Appleseed over at ICCF with Sam Damewood. Mas said its a skill thats its time has come.

tombogan03884 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2010, 01:44:32 AM »

It's a skill who's time never should have left. I have never had the opportunity to attend an Appleseed event, but I think it is an excellent program .

Bidah · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2010, 07:17:09 AM »

It is n excellent program, and I have seen many new shooters come out with spanking new rifles. When I pulled it in 3 years ago we had one shoot for the year. This year I have 4 on tap and may add a 5th. I also have had inquiries from another range that would like to start as well. From all these shooters coming out our club has grown.

-Bidah

Sponsor · « **Reply #5 on:** **Today** at 06:21:53 AM »

sledgemeister · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2010, 08:34:11 AM »

What a great thing to run, such a shame we dont have a worthwhile organisation to support such a venture

crusader rabbit · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2010, 08:44:40 AM »

They run Appleseed not too far from where I live--about an hour-and-a-half away or so. Haz and I have talked about doing this (with Haz Jr. who would probably out-shoot us both) but we just haven't made the effort. Perhaps this will re-inspire. Gotta say with two titanium hips, getting into a prone position takes a bit of time for Crusader--but has frequently been worth the effort

billt · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2010, 11:59:06 AM »

I've been hearing and reading a lot about these matches recently. What exactly is "Appleseed", and how are these matches organized? I'm reading they can be shot with anything from a .22 to M1-A's, and just about everything in between. Bill T.

atmiller · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2010, 12:55:07 PM »

www.appleseedinfo.org

Improved my rifle accuracy tremendously after the first day's instruction. Was able to get Rifleman on the 2nd day.

I'm going to take one again this spring as a refresher course.

kilopaparomeo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2010, 01:14:10 PM »

Quote

I've been hearing and reading a lot about these matches recently.

They aren't a match but rather a instructional shooting school. It teaches you the basics of marksmanship (traditional a la hi power shooting versus run-n-gun) along with the 4 basic positions. Sprinkle in a healthy dose of history about Americans, independence, courage to shrug off tyranny and focuses on the civilian marksman as the embodiment of that.

I've taken the class twice but with an M1A. I have gotten close to getting my rifleman patch, but not quite. Even though the round count is not high in the class (~250 or so) the heavier, higher recoil rifles really take their toll.

I've built a "Liberty Training Rifle" to practice with -- e.g., a 10/22 with Volquartsen trigger, bolt release, extended mag release, GI sling, TechSights -- and will either shoot the next class with it or maybe a 20" AR. The Liberty Rifle is the 5th one down in the picture below

Used to be Appleseed frowned on anything but iron sights, 30 caliber rifle (M1A, M1 Garand or similar) but now they invite any rifle, any sighting arrangement.

Here's my report I posted back in 2008 on one of the classes I took:

__________________________________________________________

Just got back from the Illinois Appleseed… (long with pics)

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…and I didn’t shoot Rifleman but I did learn a lot.

I won’t spend a lot of time going over the Appleseed concept http://rwva.blogspot.com/ (that’s what the Search function is for) but I will say it does align well with what I think of rifle shooting. I’ve really come to be fond of the concept of controlling a 500 yard radius with iron sights And aimed, rapid fire, but where I shoot (northern Illinois) I’m pretty much limited to shooting off a bench and one-cartridge-in-the-magazine at a time. Unfortunately, this trend tends to breed a whole generation of “shooters” that get their AK, slap a bipod and scope on it and proceed to shoot 6” groups off a bench. While I know high power competition is a great teacher, I’ve never found the time to get in that sport. So, the Appleseed course seemed like it was tailor-made to what I am looking for.

Here’s a rundown of what we did. The school was held at Darnall’s Range outside of Bloomington, IL. http://www.darnalls.com/ The folks there were very accommodating, allowed camping and served some very hearty lunches. Weather was not too bad…high 70’s/low 80’s, rain showers on and off, hot sun when the clouds broke, a bit humid. The course went like this:

Saturday – Start with registration and range safety/rifle grounding brief from the instructors. April 19, 1775 history lesson from Fred (one of many…the man CAN tell a story). Down to the range and learn proper prone position and 6-steps to firing. Fire several 1-inch sighter targets and ball n’ dummy to check zero and technique. Fire “Redcoat” target to check prone. Learn proper sitting and standing positions with firing in between. Fire first Quick n Dirty AQT (QDAQT). Lunch. Rest of afternoon alternating qual AQT and QDAQT to reinforce techniques in all positions. End day with Redcoat and QDAQT. Another history lesson. Total round count ~ 120

Sunday – Start with history lesson. Down to range and fire a QDAQT. Drill technique. Add 3-man team drills focusing on high-stress rapid fire – these were great…run 50 yards to line, sling up, drop to prone, load and fire 10 rounds all into single target, all in 60 seconds. Object was most number of hits to 1” star. My team won…reward was first in line to lunch. More ball ‘n dummy and qual AQT then QDAQT. Finally we shot a “volley fire” Redcoat (shoot all in unison on command for AQT score…tougher than it sounds). End with history lesson. Total round count ~ 170

AQT course of fire:
All targets from 25 m range -- 100, 200, 300, 400 m simulated targets as you work your way down
100: standing -- 10 rounds
200: sitting -- 2 round/3 round with a mag change on target 1, 5 rounds on target 2
300: prone -- rapid fire 2 rounds, mag change, 1 round on target 1, 3 rounds on target 2, 4 rounds on target 3
400: slow fire prone -- 2 rounds on target 1, mag change, 2 rounds on target 2, 3 rounds on target 3, 3 rounds on target 4

Here’s what I learned:
Self Awareness – I thought I was an OK rifle shot (I’m an NRA Rifle Instructor) but I really didn’t know how I’d do from the positions with a high rate of aimed fire. I’m definitely not the best, and thankfully not the worst.
Learning New Stuff is Hard – I started out great during the sighters but, by the end of day 1, I was very discouraged. I barely shot Marksman (>125 points) on the first QDAQT and thought all was lost. Day 2, however, showed steady improvement in scores. I never shot Rifleman (210 points) but I improved by over 50%.
Little Things Matter – I finally feel comfortable using slings. NPOA is outrageously important. “Dragging wood” (trigger finger laying on stock during squeeze) will throw shots. Adjusting elevation and windage with muscles doesn’t work for long. Cadence works (firing every 2-3 seconds instead of waiting for the perfect shot “magically” seems to actually improve your scores – my best shooting was during the 60 second-running-3-man-team drills).
Equipment is Important – I’m not advocating getting all mall ninja’d up. We had a few of those guys show up…they didn’t shoot so good. Good sights, good trigger, good mags, decent ammo, knee pads, a shooting coat, a decent shooting mat will go a long way to making your day easier and let you focus on shooting. This doesn’t mean you need a $2500 rifle. It does mean that taking as many “excuses” out will let you focus on fundamentals.
Don’t Drink Lots of Coffee Before Shooting – my Venti Starbucks Dark Roast right before the first AQT of Day 2 made my legs shake so bad I couldn’t finish the standing stage.
Shooters Are Nice People – we had all kinds. White collar, blue collar. Rich, not so rich. Urban, rural. Several ethnicities. Mostly M1As, but also some Garands, an FAL, a CETME, several ARs, a 03A3, a Mauser, an AK, a bunch of .22’s. By the end of the 2 days there was a lot of camaraderie, story swapping, and genuine well-intentioned, mutual coaching. I traded business cards with several guys.

A really good program. I’ll go again. They struck a nice balance in teaching and practical exercises as well as firm instruction without being too “drill sergeant”. Here’s a few pics…I was shooting and learning so much, I didn’t have time to take more.

My first sighters compared to the guy next to me (which was fairly typical)…I started getting cocky at this point. Stupid.

This is mine

This is the guy next to me (pretty typical of others)...this is a great example of why, when people scoff at the idea of shooting a high powered rifle at 25 yards, you should say "then show me how good you are". Most will shoot like crap when they have to take the rifle off the bench, use a position/sling and use the iron sights.