Piazza bashing, Or not ?

[tombogan03884]

Lots of folks seem to have strong opinions about "FrontSite" Owner Ignatious Piazza.  Express them here.

[Pathfinder]

He's a snake oil salesman IMNSHO.

OTOH, I have heard nothing but positive reviews on the actual training - at least up to last year. I have not checked anything lately.

[tombogan03884]

I started this thread as a parking place for the off topic subject of these 2 threads

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11274.msg147623#msg147623

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11337.msg148537#msg148537

I will reiterate something I put in one of the other threads
"Dr. Ignatious Piazza is one of the scheduled speakers at the Second Amendment March in Washington.
But he's a sleaze ball who made his money selling " Get rich quick" scams to suckers, or used cars, or some such.
I ran across a couple news stories about him losing lawsuits accusing him of fraud, and contract violations.
Originally Tom Gresham was involved , but he pulled out because he "didn't like some of the people getting involved"
We know he doesn't mean MB, MB being on Tom's show is how I found this site.
Are there other sleazy characters involved, How many potential supporters will they turn off or drive out ?
Will the Media focus on them in an effort to discredit the rest of the marchers ?

[GUNS-R-US]

I started this thread as a parking place for the off topic subject of these 2 threads

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11274.msg147623#msg147623

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11337.msg148537#msg148537

I will reiterate something I put in one of the other threads
"Dr. Ignatious Piazza is one of the scheduled speakers at the Second Amendment March in Washington.
But he's a sleaze ball who made his money selling " Get rich quick" scams to suckers, or used cars, or some such.
I ran across a couple news stories about him losing lawsuits accusing him of fraud, and contract violations.
Originally Tom Gresham was involved , but he pulled out because he "didn't like some of the people getting involved"
We know he doesn't mean MB, MB being on Tom's show is how I found this site.
Are there other sleazy characters involved, How many potential supporters will they turn off or drive out ?
Will the Media focus on them in an effort to discredit the rest of the marchers ?

I remember that Tom G had the organizer of the 2A march on his show and he come out in support of the march. Soon after that though he disassociated himself with it, but he would say who he didn't like. He was also won't say why he doesn't like Front Sight. As he usually puts it "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". That way of thinking has it's place but I think it's wrong in this case. If Piazza is trouble we should air it that is the greatest power of a free society. And the only way to get a bad school out business. Cope Reynolds of the Shooting Bench Radio show/podcast doesn't like him either. He has stated a couple of times on his show that he doesn't like Piazza, though he hasn't been explicit in his reasoning either. I wish some one with some true info would just spill it. 

[tombogan03884]

From what I have heard as well, the school is fine, it's Piazza not living up to contracts, and those "Life membership"deals he was offering.

[Sponsor]

[Pathfinder]

IIRC, Gresham did say that if you wanted to know why, just search the net for Piazza and you would see. Mostly I found the snake oil bit plus the real estate scams he's been sued over - successfully. Plus, now, the tendency to wallow in the blood of others to sell his school.

I thought one of the resolutions of lawsuits was to force him to divest himself of the schools? I will have to look into that.

[Solus]

I have not attended any Front Sight classes, but if I had the means I would.  From everything I have seen and heard about the training, it is top notch.

I am on the Front Sight mailing list and I get all of Piazza's promotions.  My take is that he has more than his share of P. T. Barnum in  him.  He very aggressively markets his product.  He also gives many training classes away in his promotions.  Like buy one, get 5 free for Church members who are becoming the security force for their church.  Of course, recent church shootings are used in the promotion.

I have also heard about the lawsuits.  I have researched them to some extent and have heard all of his side of it through his mailings.  I am leaning a bit in Piazza's favor on this, but am not positive his was not at fault. 

If he is sincere in what he is trying to accomplish but has not been able to due to legal/financial obstacles, he is not a snake, just not as good at this as he advertised he was.

It has been reported that he is a Christian Scientist and I have not found any proof either way, except he does portray the aggressive approach often associated with  that belief.

Front Sight has a series of videos called the Front Sight Challenge in which four competitors participate with a particular firearm type:  pistol, rifle, sub-gun etc.  Two of the participants are Front Site students and two are from the military or police ranks. 

If you want to observe the result of the training, visit the site and sign up for the series.  Unless you want to be on his mailing list, make a new Hot Mail or GMail account for this purpose. 

I have not stopped the mailings because in addition to the never ending sales pitch I think he does present some good information.

I am not a Piazza fan, but am interested in the product.

[tombogan03884]

Even if he is in fact a Saint, he comes ACROSS as a sleazy Snake oil salesman, that is the important thing in relation to the Second Amendment  March. Which in no way relates to the quality of the School's Classes.
How is he going to appear to "Jane and Joe Average " in a media that is already hostile to our cause ?
He is an easy target for the media to focus on , giving the impression that all these schools are run by  " slick Con artists . Probably working for the radical Right Wing Extremists of the Tea Party Movement"

[PegLeg45]

Sounds like a classic example of a salesman with viable/quality product who uses a marketing strategy that fails. Then he tries to use questionable tactics to get out of a jam, but ends up digging the hole deeper. In the end, a potentially good thing ends up looking like a sham, and the salesman loses credibility and the whole situation looks bad to the media and those on the outside looking in.

[tombogan03884]

Sounds like a classic example of a salesman with viable/quality product who uses a marketing strategy that fails. Then he tries to use questionable tactics to get out of a jam, but ends up digging the hole deeper. In the end, a potentially good thing ends up looking like a sham, and the salesman loses credibility and the whole situation looks bad to the media and those on the outside looking in.

Is his participation in the Second Amendment March going to help or hurt ?