Author Topic: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***  (Read 6070 times)

PegLeg45

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2010, 02:54:50 PM »
How about "You are a legal adult citizen of the United States, and you can legally posess a firearm"?

Just a cent and a half from a northern redneck son of a bitch  ;)

You would not have to uniform the standards for getting the permit, nor the laws for carrying.

It does not work that way with driving.... There are very few things that are standardized from state to state. Certain states outlaw texting while driving and others do not. States have different thresholds for measuring intoxication. Speed limits (aside from highways) are set by localities. States also have differences in the age at which you can get a license as well as far different tests that must be taken to get the license. The list goes on and on. Its up to the driver to know the local traffic laws and it would be the same thing with concealed carry.

It merely must be a matter of forcing recognition...... Giving things over to the federal government and making them responsible for determining the requirements and enforcement would be a BIG mistake.


+1......thank you both for saving me some typing.

The biggest involvement on the federal level should be the feds 'reminding' some states what "shall not be infringed' actually means.
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ericire12

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2010, 03:31:06 PM »
+1......thank you both for saving me some typing.

The biggest involvement on the federal level should be the feds 'reminding' some states what "shall not be infringed' actually means.

Yes. The last thing that we should want to do is to give those idiots in Washington - and I will remind you that the Dumbocrats currently control both houses of Congress and the White House - the power to legislate dictate the way inwhich the 2nd Amendment is going to be dished out and how much tax will be placed upon it.

Lets face it, the biggest grip we as permit holders have with this is that when we go to certain states our permits are not recognized. Yes, looser restrictions about how permits are handed out in God forsaken places like Kalifornistan would be great but that is a battle that must be fought on the local level.
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fightingquaker13

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2010, 03:39:23 PM »
Yes. The last thing that we should want to do is to give those idiots in Washington - and I will remind you that the Dumbocrats currently control both houses of Congress and the White House - the power to legislate dictate the way inwhich the 2nd Amendment is going to be dished out and how much tax will be placed upon it.

Lets face it, the biggest grip we as permit holders have with this is that when we go to certain states our permits are not recognized. Yes, looser restrictions about how permits are handed out in God forsaken places like Kalifornistan would be great but that is a battle that must be fought on the local level.
And the Earth stood still. I actually agree with Eric. I think he cut to heart of the matter. Yes I would like loose and uniform CCW laws in all 50 states. No, I don't trust the feds to the job right so I'd rather work on the local level. See, sometimes we really can all get along. ;D
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ericire12

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2010, 03:54:30 PM »
And the Earth stood still. I actually agree with Eric. I think he cut to heart of the matter. Yes I would like loose and uniform CCW laws in all 50 states. No, I don't trust the feds to the job right so I'd rather work on the local level. See, sometimes we really can all get along. ;D
FQ13

Bless your heart. ::)

You obviously did not read my earlier post where I destroyed your assertion that the govt must set national uniform standards for attaining a CWP as well as the laws for carring. WTF, Quaker(D)? Do you even know where you stand on this issue ???

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11671.msg152548#msg152548
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fightingquaker13

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2010, 04:05:25 PM »
Bless your heart. ::)

You obviously did not read my earlier post where I destroyed your assertion that the govt must set national uniform standards for attaining a CWP as well as the laws for carring. WTF, Quaker(D)? Do you even know where you stand ???

And here I thought we were all getting along. I guess that lasted about as long as BO's "bipartisanship". ::) Eric, you destroyed nothing. Here's the thing. Article I of the US Constitution sections seven, eight and nine. Article IV of the same document. Check them out. The Constitution enummerates certain powers to the feds and denies others to the states in article I. Driving (by ommision for obvious reasons) is not an enummerated power and thus falls under state rather than federal purview. However the 2A (and the implied duty to protect it), by virtue of being in the Constitution is close to an enummerated power. State reciprocity, which I thought we both agreed on, but apparently not, falls under the "Full Faith and Credit" clause of artivle IV. Personally, I think its better this way, but YMMV.
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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #25 on: Today at 10:34:39 AM »

ericire12

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2010, 04:57:44 PM »
Quaker(D)-

You are contradicting yourself at every turn here.

*And its not about "everybody getting along".... if thats all you really are looking for then go hug a tree ya hippie (I know, you will see being called a hippie as a compliment, but I said it anyway. ::) )
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tombogan03884

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2010, 12:39:23 AM »
It's Eric, you should have known better   ::) 

garand4life

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2010, 12:25:26 PM »
Wouldn't it be pretty simple for there to be national recognition of state permits? Every state must recognize your permit as long as you are subject to the concealment laws of the state you are in. I have an OH permit but if I'm in say in PA, PA recognizes that I have a valid permit as long as I follow PA concealment laws while in PA. Currently PA does not have an agreement with OH because of different training requirements. Yet PA and neighboring WV recognize each others permits and WV and OH recognize each others permits but PA and OH do not. In math didn't the transitive principle say that if a=b and b=c then a=c? It's that kind of crap that makes me want there so be some kind of federal standardization much like drivers licenses. But I can see where it becomes a slippery slope letting the fed in to the permit business. Just like everything else the fed gets it's fingers into it tries to take over and corrupt.
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scott.ballard

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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2010, 09:17:07 AM »
I think that arguing CCW reciprocity is the same as DL reciprocity would be difficult to stand behind in the long run.  Driving is considered, even by many here on this forum, to be a right.  It is a deeply entrenched part of our society. Driving is something we teach our youth.  It is a modern rite of passage. Even the majority of hoplophobes drive without openly recognizing that what they are operating is a weapon.

The most abundant weapon in our country is a knife.  Most kitchens have several ranging in size and type.  We teach our children to use them safely at a young age.  Again, the hoplophobic refuse to recognize that what they are wielding is a weapon.

Our challenge is to convince these people, the openly and cluelessly hypocritical, the casualties of common sense, the irrationally weak minded fools they are, that there is no difference between a concealed firearm, a knife or a car.  Any of them, when in the hands of the properly trained, can produce an individually or collectively pleasant result.  Yet, when used improperly, with malice or while impaired, the results can be undesirable.

I do not think that standardization of training or even state's laws will enable this to happen.  We need to counter the firearms education that most Americans have received with the actual facts.  We need to stand by our convictions without failing to recognize that those of our opposition are as deep rooted as our own. It is highly unlikely that we will ever convince those who oppose us with as much passion as we oppose them that their opinions are wrong.  We don't need to do that.  We need to persuade those who are stuck in the middle.

Do we lobby Hollywood for more accuracy?  Do we educate our elected officials? Do we back those who share our common beliefs?  Absolutely, but the most effective way is for us to take our message to a grass roots level.  Let's start educating those around us.  Let's gently convert a non-shooter by letting that person know it isn't anything like they hear and see in most movies, TV shows or newscasts.  Find a youngster in need of direction and spend some time with her/him.  You don't even have to go shooting to educate them about the truths of firearms.

Hell, it's working for the green effort so why not use it for ourselves?  Act locally.  Educate the next generations. Provide logical answers to those who are confused.  Then, we may stand a chance.  Otherwise, I'm afraid that we will lose a deeply embedded part of our nations culture.  The way of the gun.

Will standards help us out?  Not likely?  Laws do no good for a society when there are those willing to ignore them.  The criminals and parasite of society will always exist.  Most likely balanced out by the well-intended.  A law is words on paper; a nice idea.  No piece of paper or well intended thought will ever keep us from harm by those with malignant souls.  The Constitution and Bill of Rights declare and define that which is ours as citizens of the United States.  They don't define us, they don't provide us anything we are not willing to take onto ourselves.  That is about all we can hope for from words on paper.  The rest is up to us.
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Re: National Reciprocity ***Standards?***
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2010, 12:01:36 PM »
Scott, you wrote what I was thinking, but more eloquently than I could have managed.  Thank you.
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