147gr +P 9mm ammo, Thoughts?

[twyacht]

Do not want to open a can of worms, but I enjoy my FNP-9mm. No frills, no muss, pistol. For SD rounds, I rotate between 124gr. +P Cor-Bon, or 147gr. +P subsonic Federal HST's.

The old Chuck Hawks mentality, of the ol' standby of 115gr. was 10 years old, using 20 year old data. Mostly due to the post Miami LEO shooting, where the BG with a .223 rifle continued to shoot for several minutes, despite being hit mortally, with several rds. of 115gr. Winchester JHP's.

The premise of slower heavy bullets, i.e. the .45 ACP, is kinda where I'm going for SD situations, to avoid over penetration, in a residential area...

Just trying to get "my head around" the ballistic advantages on a heavier, slower round vs. a faster lighter round.

Here's some thoughts I reviewed.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mmGoodProtection.htm

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=980236

Not looking for a 9mm bashing reply, but an intelligent consideration for the best rd. for a carry 9mm.

Thank you.

tw

[Majer]

TW, isn't +P subsonic ammo an oxymoron?

I use Federal 115 gr JHP +P+ in my HiPower, Have heard from some LEO friends that the 147 is fairly worthless, Their opinion from street use.

[Big Frank]

You can't make a 9mm into a .45 no matter how heavy the bullet is so don't try. 115-124 gr bullets have worked for over 100 years and they still get the job done.

[scott.ballard]

The 9mm has come  avery long way and is an excellent SD cartridge.  Especially if you consider that most animals are not solitary hunters. The modern 9mm gives you an excellent advantage when dealing with multiple aggressors.

Since there is no such thing as a "one shot stop" or, all due respect to Larry Potterfield, "knock down factor", shot placement and muzzle energy are much more important to me than the weight of the projectile.  Especially if you accept that most SD encounters are going to take place at very close range.

Here are the muzzle velocity and muzzle energy listings for a few of the common 9mm SD loads:

Speer GDHP 124 +P  1220/410

Speer GDHP 147       985/317

Corbon JHP 90   +P  1500/450

Corbon JHP 115 +P   1350/466

Corbon JHP 125  +P  1250/434

What does the data for your load tell you?  Good muzzle energy?  Do you find that you can control it?  Is it easily acquired?

I decided to go with the 125 from Corbon because it has very good muzzle energy with a decent weight projectile.  More importantly, I find it easy to hit with consistently because, all things being equal,  shot placement trumps caliber choice or projectile weight every time.  Load a reliable expanding bullet and make sure you can efficiently and accurately run a zipper string or tri-tap with it.

Stay Safe,

[DonWorsham]

I chose the Federal HST 147 gr +p for the same reasons Scott chose the Corbon "... it has very good muzzle energy with a decent weight projectile....I find it easy to hit with consistently because, all things being equal,  shot placement trumps caliber choice or projectile weight every time...". And besides, it's the only round my mother lets me shoot.

[Sponsor]

[twyacht]

Thank you Don and scott. The conundrum:

"If a bullet expands and penetrates 6" and another bullet does not expand, but penetrates 12", which one does more damage?"

I like the premise of a heavier bullet for SD. Just trying to weigh the offset of velocity vs. bullet weight.

From another forum.

The 147gr. has a lot of material behind that hollow point, which causes it to expand like a HP but penetrate like a FMJ to a certain point. It should be noted though that Gold Dot and Golden Sabre have outdone Federal because the post would occasionally bend to the side hurting penetration or break off which would cause loss of bullet mass and thus certain agencies had it replaced.

Criteria being maintained bullet mass while expanding reliably and penetrating 13 inches + of ballistic gel.

TW, isn't +P subsonic ammo an oxymoron?

I use Federal 115 gr JHP +P+ in my HiPower, Have heard from some LEO friends that the 147 is fairly worthless, Their opinion from street use.

Thanks Majer, what is the premise, knock down? Recoil? One shot stop? (Which can also be an oxymoron, except in movies)

God Bless Your Mom DonW.

[garand4life]

It's so funny you brought up the HSTs TW. In my M&P45 I carry 230gr HST only because at current it's the only HPs I have in .45. Now I do have a box of HST 155gr .40S&W which usually gets bumped for the 155gr Gold Dots but I like the reviews on the HST I'm seeing online. I haven't carried them in my compact 9 yet but I do have some 124gr +P 9mm sitting next to me. I'm thinking if I can't get more Hornady Critical Defense I may have to start carrying those HSTs instead. Any word on the performance on the slightly lighter 124gr?

[DonWorsham]

It should be noted though that Gold Dot and Golden Sabre have outdone Federal because the post would occasionally bend to the side hurting penetration or break off which would cause loss of bullet mass and thus certain agencies had it replaced.

The Federal HST P9HST4 147 gr does not have a post.

[twyacht]

The Federal HST P9HST4 147 gr does not have a post.

Your correct, I think it was the predecessor, the "Hydra-Shok", used by many LEO's in the past, evolved into the HST.

Similar to the Winchester SXT round from the old Black Talon rd. Even down to the Lubilox coating.

[Fatman]

Your correct, I think it was the predecessor, the "Hydra-Shok", used by many LEO's in the past, evolved into the HST.

Similar to the Winchester SXT round from the old Black Talon rd. Even down to the Lubilox coating.

Your HSTs are coated??? I'm confuzzed. Mine are not. They just look like Giant Flying Ashtrays of Doom.