Will Toyota Ever Get Out Of Free Fall ?

[billt]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36457556/ns/business-autos

And the hits just keep on comin'.   Bill T.

[twyacht]

As long as the gov't still owns GM & Chrysler, the hits, PR machine, and the spin doctors will continue to hammer Toyota.

Have you seen the Mercedes equivalent? Not only is it ugly, it is a clone with different grill, just like the Buick. Copy than bash the opposition.

Right out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.

[JSC3ATLCSO]

I'm just pissed that Toyota won't fess up to their being something wrong.  Gas pedals sticking...  Floor mats?   Come on give me a break.. I don't own Toyota but that would make me not buy one.  If there is a problem then fix it.

[m25operator]

A lot of vehicles are what we call, drive by wire, there is no mechanical connection between gas pedal and the throttle being opened, it is possible, but very unlikely that ( unintended ) acceleration could occur, but there are many failsafes built in, the number one, is the brake pedal, if it is depressed, it cancels the throttle position, even if you were pressing the gas pedal and the  brake pedal at the same time. The electronic throttle go's to the closed position. Anything can happen, but this technology has so many redundant systems built in, it is very unlikely.

The same thing happened in the 90's with Audi, it just was not true, a lot of people cashing in on the unintended acceleration, band wagon, I was an expert witness on 1 trial, the situation could never be duplicated...I had to evaluate a vehicle that ran over a patron in a car wash, it was slippery shoes on the gas/brake pedal, IMHO.

I have been doing this too long to rule it out, as electronics could be susceptible to radio frequency interference, but it is very doubtful, with the number of instances, reported, but, no repeatability, and a willing congress, to point fingers, but have no solutions.

Can't say no, it is impossible, but in my experience, just like the lady who spilled hot coffee in her lap, Pilot error, not mechanical or electrical.

[billt]

Toyota's latest fax pas is getting a lot of press because Consumer Reports listed the vehicle as, Do Not Buy. I believe the last car that got that designation from them was the Yugo. As far as rollover ability, there most likely isn't a SUV currently being produced that can't be rolled over.

In 1991 Famous retired jockey Willie Shoemaker was paralyzed from the neck down when he rolled his Ford Bronco in a DWI accident. In spite of being drunk at the wheel, he sued Ford and received a $1,000,000.00 settlement. Bottom line, if you want a big vehicle with large tires, and a lot of room and ground clearance, you're going to have to live with it's ability to roll over. If not, buy a Vette.  Bill T.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Shoemaker

[Sponsor]

[philw]

spot on Bill

they are eventually a Land Cruser  with a fancy badge  that will never go off road
http://video.consumerreports.org/services/player/bcpid21495733001?bctid=77022871001

they are not a sports car   

[Hazcat]

As long as the gov't still owns GM & Chrysler, the hits, PR machine, and the spin doctors will continue to hammer Toyota.

Have you seen the Mercedes equivalent? Not only is it ugly, it is a clone with different grill, just like the Buick. Copy than bash the opposition.

Right out of Saul Alinsky's playbook.

spot on!

[crusader rabbit]

I can't believe that Toyota would not promulgate any "fault" they find in the acceleration cases.  Something must certainly be going on with the wire/RF controls or floor mats or something to cause malfunction and they just can't isolate it.   ON THE OTHER HAND, Gummint Motors really needs to lower the competitive standards if they are going to be able to sell the mobile parts piles they're making.  This nonsense with the Lexus rolling over is, IMHO, just that.  In the example shown on last night's news, the danged thing didn't roll.  In fact, the computerized skid control took over and it slowed to a stop.

I personally own a Ford Explorer.  It's relatively high off the ground.  It's old, and the shocks aren't as good as they were when they were new.  It WILL roll over upon provocation--like hitting the brakes suddenly and turning the wheel hard right or left.  It is a fault that is recognized and lived with because I like the idea of a 5-speed stick and 4WD.  I formerly owned a CJ5 with the same inclination to roll over upon minimal poor driving practices.  Recognized.  Understood. Compensated for.  Never rolled it.

But with all that said, I heard on yesterday's news that the scientists at Wood's Hole or MIT or some other prestigious research institution are considering the possiblity that Toyota's problems are the result of sunspot activity.  I suppose that is a possibility, but it strikes me as about as likely as little green men. 


Finally, Ford announced yesterday that they now have the highest market share they have enjoyed since the '70s.

[billt]

A couple of years back while on the way home from work on the freeway, I had to lock up my 2 Wheel drive F-150 to avoid a multi car pile up that took place right in front of me. In spite of having rear anti lock brakes the vehicle got sideways on me at close to 60 MPH. The truck came with 235 X 15 tires which I had changed out to 31" X 10.5 a while back. I managed to get it stopped without rolling it, but just barely! The guy behind me was driving a Camaro and stopped no more than 6" from the door handle on my passenger side. Had the truck stayed straight he would have rear ended me for sure. He needed the extra distance I provided him by going sideways.

He told me after we got out, (the entire freeway was blocked by wrecked vehicles), I was on 2 wheels, and he thought for sure I was going over. It was pure luck I didn't. I see so many of these "Monster Trucks" on the freeway now a days that would roll like a soccer ball if the same thing happened to them. All of the fancy leather interiors and gold plated name badges they put on these vehicles to attract the suburban yuppie set won't change Sir Issac Newton's laws of motion.  Bill T.

[Timothy]

One of the most dangerous things you can do with a vehicle that has a high center of gravity is put tires on it with a short performance type sidewall.  You see a lot of this on "gangsta" cars, not so much on Explorers or pick-ups.  It's very important on these trucks for the sidewall to be able to flex in order to maintain control during a turn.

Maintaining correct tire pressure, using the tires recommended for the vehicle and rated for the type of driving you're planning are important to maintaining vehicle control as well.  Trucks are not high performance vehicles and should not be driven as such.  Like Bill said, buy a Corvette Mustang.....or other American made "something or other" if you need something to run on rails.

Maybe Toyota/Lexus will come back, maybe not, but they won't get my money again!

Yes, I was in the tire business back in the day.....