Poll of the day - What long gun do you have in your patrol vehicle?

[TAB]

There is no need for a bolt action 308 locally.  I also don't see a need for a pump action 223.  If they do need a rifle, why not a lever gun?  Think about it, its a more public friendly weapon, they are not lacking in firepower, or capcity.  The only real down side too them is thier reloading time. 

All of this, "we needz more weaponz" ( with a z on purpose)  came about after the WHW shoot out.  Now granted they only had 9 mm and buck shot, but still not a single officer could figure out thier legs do not have body armor?    wound the SOB, let him bleed to death.  Hell most officers never even got a shot off on them.

The lack of training is what cuased all that mess, not thier lack of tools.

[PegLeg45]

There is no need for a bolt action 308 locally.  I also don't see a need for a pump action 223.  If they do need a rifle, why not a lever gun?  Think about it, its a more public friendly weapon, they are not lacking in firepower, or capcity.  The only real down side too them is thier reloading time.  

All of this, "we needz more weaponz" ( with a z on purpose)  came about after the WHW shoot out.  Now granted they only had 9 mm and buck shot, but still not a single officer could figure out thier legs do not have body armor?   wound the SOB, let him bleed to death.  Hell most officers never even got a shot off on them.

The lack of training is what cuased all that mess, not thier lack of tools.

On the morning of Feb. 28, 1997, after months of preparation, including extensive reconnoitering of their intended target—the Bank of America branch on Laurel Canyon Boulevard—Phillips and Matasareanu loaded five illegally modified, fully automatic rifles: three Romanian AIM rifles (an AKM copy), a modified HK91 and an AR-15. They also possessed two 9 mm Beretta 92F pistols, a .38-caliber revolver, and approximately 3,300 rounds of ammunition in box and drum magazines, and made their way from their apartment to the bank in a white Chevrolet Celebrity.  They wore their full-suit body armor, as well as metal trauma plates to protect vital organs, and they took the barbiturate  phenobarbital to calm their nerves.
               According to: Critical Situation, "North Hollywood Shoot-out"; Robinson


I had to put that in, but I do agree that training was the larger issue.

[JC5123]

There is no need for a bolt action 308 locally.  I also don't see a need for a pump action 223.  If they do need a rifle, why not a lever gun?  Think about it, its a more public friendly weapon, they are not lacking in firepower, or capcity.  The only real down side too them is thier reloading time. 

All of this, "we needz more weaponz" ( with a z on purpose)  came about after the WHW shoot out.  Now granted they only had 9 mm and buck shot, but still not a single officer could figure out thier legs do not have body armor?    wound the SOB, let him bleed to death.  Hell most officers never even got a shot off on them.

The lack of training is what cuased all that mess, not thier lack of tools.

Ok then, I nominate Tab to tell the officers responding to the barricaded gunman, that they really don't need a semi auto rifle, or an accurate sniper weapon. They can have a safe an effective barricade with their Glock sidearms. They just need better training.

[TAB]

what does full-suit  body armor mean?


The ones I've seen, that actually do cover the entire body, make it so they are extremly hard to move in.  

From the videos I've seen, I really dobut thats what they were wearing.

[TAB]

Ok then, I nominate Tab to tell the officers responding to the barricaded gunman, that they really don't need a semi auto rifle, or an accurate sniper weapon. They can have a safe an effective barricade with their Glock sidearms. They just need better training.

we are talking about beat cops here, not swat.  not many probs that a side arm and a 12 ga can't solve.

I don't know about your local LEOs, but around here, they are trained to take on a barricaded gun men with out lots and lots of back up.  Even when they have all that back up and swat.  its normally a waiting game anyways.

[Sponsor]

[JC5123]

what does full-suit  body armor mean?


The ones I've seen, that actually do cover the entire body, make it so they are extremly hard to move in.  

From the videos I've seen, I really dobut thats what they were wearing.

I watched something about this on the History Channel one time. They said these guys had made their own body armor. They had sewn plates into their clothes. I'm sorry I forget what the material was. But they were actually very creative, and effective. They had ballistic protection for their whole upper body and the fronts of their legs.

[ericire12]

Ok then, I nominate Tab to tell the officers responding to the barricaded gunman, that they really don't need a semi auto rifle, or an accurate sniper weapon. They can have a safe an effective barricade with their Glock Colt Police Positive revolvers sidearms. They just need better training.

Fixed for the purposes of TAB being able to sleep at night

[PegLeg45]

I watched something about this on the History Channel one time. They said these guys had made their own body armor. They had sewn plates into their clothes. I'm sorry I forget what the material was. But they were actually very creative, and effective. They had ballistic protection for their whole upper body and the fronts of their legs.

Aramid.
We used it in heat resistant gloves in our foundry where I used to work. Tough stuff.

http://www.aramid.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramid

In certain parts of the videos of the shoot-out, you can see the bulk of the pads under their pants legs.

[JC5123]

Thanks Peg!

[JSC3ATLCSO]

Most of the SD and PD in my area carry both.  Some sort of shotgun and also some kind of rifle.  The county I use to work for had Mossy 500's with ghost ring sights and an AR15 of whatever brand.  I don't know why there were several different brands but for whatever the reason there were a few Olympic arms and a couple of armalites and I think one colt even.  Couple others too but it has been 2 years now.