Remington's new 1911 on the cover of Shooting Times

[Rob10ring]

I got it in the mail a few days ago. I was wondering when someone would post about it and what was thought of it. Looks good to me.

I think we are getting one from Ruger pretty soon too, but I really want to see some Bren 10's on the shelves.

[Solus]

I'm a bit confused by the RHINO remark as I am not, and never have been, nor plan to be a serious member of the Republican (or Democratic) party,
FQ13

That would be RINO.  Perhaps Tom meant this?  http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/09/30/chiappa-rhino-revolver/

[Solus]

Here's something to think about . We designed (Kelly Johnson did ) the SR 71, the USS Nimitz , the USS Nautilus, the Apollo space program and the Space Shuttle all using slide rules.
What have we done since ?    

The SR71 was designed with the "think tank" process.  A group of the best people working tightly together to get the job done.  Probably the most advanced aircraft ever developed and ever to be developed.

You won't see many achievements like that any more.  To many accountants, review committees, company policies, government inspections and approvals, and Managers, instead of Leaders, involved.

[r_w]

There are people that spend all there time pouring through old patents looking for ones that were too far ahead of their times.  Things that couldn't be manufactured then but can now due to better machines and metallurgy.

JMB was the greatest gun designer of all time plus he had the drive to see it through.  There are lots of brilliant designs ot there that never leave someone's dreams or notepad--they don't have the drive or resources to see it through.

I don't care if there is another 1911 on the market.  I much prefer to see another 1911 than some marginal unreliable untested design.  I do wish we could get the 1911 down to a $400 gun, but that isn't happening without a significant change in the value of a dollar.

[billt]

As for music, a local oldies station here has a saying, "All of the great music has already been recorded." I think there is a lot of truth in that. It's one of the reasons most of today's modern stuff stinks, and is around for 15 minutes or less. There will never be a station that plays stuff from the 90's to 2010 thirty years from now simply because no one will remember it, let alone want to hear it.

I think it's much the same with gun designs. The AR-15 was about the most revolutionary weapon of modern times, and it's over 50 years old. Look at most semi auto pistols. They either are, or closely mimic the 1911. A revolver is a revolver. Not much they can do with it except make it out of something different. They've tried Aluminum, Titanium and plastic. Not much left.

Same with bolt action rifles. Savage, Remington, Browning, Ruger, Mauser, all look and operate much the same. There just isn't a whole lot more to invent. In shotguns they've come out with some new ideas. Benelli's inertia action on the Super Black Eagle is a nice idea that really works well. As for pistols Glock was it, and it was over 25 years ago. Now they're all jumping on the bandwagon. Springfield with the XD, and S&W with the Sigma and M&P. Just a Glock in different clothes.

1911's sell well. That is why everyone and their brother is making them. Just like AR-15's. Yeah, they skeletonize the hammers, checker everything except the inside of the barrel, put on every kind of sight ever manufactured since the dawn of time, but in the end it's another 1911. Some are finished better. Some fit better, and others simply go bang. It's much the same with cartridges. 10 years ago the short fat wonders were all the rage. Now most, like the Remington SAUM's have tanked. People who like guns are for the most part traditionalists.

 I think many of the gun manufacturers would be better served bringing out modern replicas of old designs. I'd like to see a NEW Garand with a Stainless Steel gas system, or even a Browning BAR in semi auto produced by a big name like Browning again. The .50 BMG's have caught on well. Gun makers are finding it harder and harder to make a buck today. I think partly because of the "Build 'em cheap, and stack 'em deep" philosophy. Guns used to be handed down. Now many are lucky to last for a few years. As with music, all of the good guns have already been invented.  Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[PegLeg45]

The SR71 was designed with the "think tank" process.  A group of the best people working tightly together to get the job done.  Probably the most advanced aircraft ever developed and ever to be developed.

You won't see many achievements like that any more.  To many accountants, review committees, company policies, government inspections and approvals, and Managers, instead of Leaders, involved.

I wholeheartedly agree with that.

[capbyrd]

 I think many of the gun manufacturers would be better served bringing out modern replicas of old designs. I'd like to see a NEW Garand with a Stainless Steel gas system, or even a Browning BAR in semi auto produced by a big name like Browning again. The .50 BMG's have caught on well. Gun makers are finding it harder and harder to make a buck today. I think partly because of the "Build 'em cheap, and stack 'em deep" philosophy. Guns used to be handed down. Now many are lucky to last for a few years. As with music, all of the good guns have already been invented.  Bill T.

And we have a winner.  Except, SA tried a modern Garand and ceased production.  Anyone know why?

[billt]

Another thing is to look at the auto industry. I remember going to auto shows in the late 60's and seeing these, "Concept Cars Of The Future". They were on giant turntables surrounded by models in short skirts and high heeled boots. They all looked like something George Jetson was driving. It would have taken 5 cans of Windex to clean all of the glass.

In reality look at what we have over 40 years later. Ford started off in the new millennium with introducing a retro late 60's styled Mustang. It's selling like hotcakes. Dodge responded with a retro 60's Hemi Challenger. Again sales took off, bad economy and all. Chevy finally smelled the coffee perking and came out with a 60's styled "new" Camaro. Again, great sales.

This even relates back to women's fashion. Short skirts and high heeled boots are back "in". The older we get, the more "old" we want. That "new" Garand is looking better and better!  Bill T.

[billt]

The SR71 was designed with the "think tank" process.  A group of the best people working tightly together to get the job done.  Probably the most advanced aircraft ever developed and ever to be developed.

You won't see many achievements like that any more.  To many accountants, review committees, company policies, government inspections and approvals, and Managers, instead of Leaders, involved.

And older friend of mine who passed away a few years ago worked for over 40 years at the Lockheed "Skunk Works". He worked for years with Kelly Johnson on both the U-2 and the SR-71. He said when they started on the project they had to come up with technology that had not been invented yet. Kelly Johnson called a meeting at the start of the project with all of his managers and design people. He said:

 "From now on don't anyone call me into a meeting that lasts over 5 minutes because I'll walk out. I don't have time. Don't anyone send me a memo over 2 paragraphs long. I don't have time to read it. I'll give you all the personnel you need to do the job. I'll give you all of the tools you need to do the job. I'll give you a respectable time frame in which to do the job. But after all that, if you CAN'T do the job, I'm going to get rid of you because I don't have the time.

Ben Rich turned to my friend and said, Ernie, I'll buy you a drink when we get off tonight! In less than 18 months they had a prototype in the air. Today that kind of undertaking would be all but impossible. Hell, in 1969 we went to the Moon in a program that lasted less than a decade. Today we can't even get our guys into low Earth orbit. Starting in a few months we'll have to hitch a ride with the Russians. It's disgusting.  Bill T.

[billt]

And we have a winner.  Except, SA tried a modern Garand and ceased production.  Anyone know why?

I don't know if it was entirely "new". I think they were made from older parts, and some newly manufactured ones. They are selling the M-1A's like crazy. I don't know why they don't come out with a completely new Garand. It would sell like hotcakes! These are the kind of guns we need and want. Not cheap plastic pocket pistols and revolvers. God, how many guns can people carry?  Bill T.