RASTUS - Oil rig fire ...

[CJS3]

Its hard to argue with a smart redneck. Sometimes "Hold my beer and watch this" works just fine. These boys seem to have a cheap plan that's idiot proof, cheap, and certainley not going to make things worse, as some these dispersion chemicals will. The knock against them is that BP is dumping them in at too rapid a rate. It preserves the beaches, but it makes the oil sink, thus killing the grass beds, oysters etc., and poisoning the fishery. Easier to clean a beach than a grass flat, is just that a dirty beach looks bad on TV and is harder to defend against in court. .
FQ13

All questions, speculation, and motivating factors have been addressed.

[fightingquaker13]

All questions, speculation, and motivating factors have been addressed.

By whom and where? And who's motivation?
FQ13 who is asking, not arguing

[Rastus]

We don't really know what happened yet.  Speculation is rampant.  One of my best friends is working the problem as he is an international subsea blowout specialist.  I am not even going to tell you what company he works for because that's the way he likes it.  He won't tell me anything to protect his client confidentiality or even that he's on that job...but when I called his house and he was out the lady of the house told me where he was.  The Minerals Management Service will, after an investigation is complete, describe exactly what is known and what happened on that basis....despite all of the media liberal crap those MMS guys don't hide anything and will let the chips fall where they may.  The MMS has been known to send U.S. Marshalls out to grab people in non-compliance but that does not hit the news.

There have been a couple of misstatements made here.  Is it because of unbridled enthusiasm of wanting to help and a lack of wanting to check facts because of perceived self-infallibility vs. prudent due diligence (i.e., mouth overruns ass wanting to tell other people what to do, why they are wrong and how to live their lives without ever experiencing what they are talking about?) or what?  I don't know.

The worst spill in the Gulf of Mexico was probably the IXTOC 1 which Phil posted.  I say probably because the German's sunk just about every tanker built just east of the mouth of the Mississippi River in WWII.   That's why the Colonial Pipeline was built...to bring oil to New England refineries.  Anti-submarine efforts in WWII is why you have a Strategic Helium Reserve and why there are a lot of old blimp bases along the gulf coast.

Next, the rigs actually enhance the fisheries.  Many studies by real scientists on this that conclude that rigs increase fisheries.  The environmental pseudo-science guys create artificial pseudo-science arguements to the contrary to support their rhetoric.  Period.  The pseudo-scientists want to believe something so bad and so emphatically they can't be wrong...they have their reasons, whatever that is....and they need to save face too.

Concerning damage...all those tankers sunk in WWII and oil on the beaches caused no permanent harm.  It was information kept from the public due to the war effort but Louisiana coasts were drenched with oil and people were paid to walk the beaches to help survivors and locate bodies.

The gulf states don't get the federal lease money because it's a federal lease.  These days, the government gets 20% of shelf production in either the value or production in kind of offshore federal lease production.  Go the the MMS website to see how much production that is and do the $$$$ calcs yourself.  Louisiana has substantial production in inland waters and in state leases....that's on their website if you are interested in due diligence.

I worked 21 on-off, 7 on-off...you don't have to but that's why the pay is there.  Just say no to the job.  Doing that you are "captive labor" with special rights and privileges.  I call BS on ignorant people who haven't been there and done that...I wish I could work 21 on-off right now...those days off are super sweet.  Everyone I know who worked out there more than a week or two liked the schedule or they didn't come back.  If you don't want to work it you don't have to....virtually everyone out there does except the specialized infrequent labor needed from time to time who generally only comes out for a couple of days at a time...this is not special to BP get over it and the workers like it and like the extra money it brings.  It's their families and their lives to decide not yours, they don't want your help or your good intentions for their welfare.  Who wants to get up and fly on a helicopter for an hour every morning to go to work or ride a boat for four hours to get to work....one way?  This is remote work and travel time dock arrival to location, not round trip, is several hours for most jobs.

And, as usual, the government has made it worse.  The USCG COP did not allow a two mile boom to be put around the location after the rig sunk.  Why...because she is an idiot.  The equipment and personnel were there....now the oil is out.  Do not be fooled that the USCG has not been running and coordinating this effort....they always have the trump card and they are the 5000 (not 500) pound gorilla in the room.  The use of dispersants is a USCG call...not BP's call and if you believe the newspapers and talking heads on this you've been deceived.  I like the use of microbes, but the USCG doesn't...they are used on land everywhere, they are natural bugs taken from oiley locations that love oil and exist naturally......some hang up there.  There is an MMS approved ICS plan specific to BP (submitted by BP) for spills....my thought and the word I get from cleanup guys is that the USCG is pointing to minor deficiencies in a U.S. Government approved plan (what plan survives first contact?) to keep the reporters eyes off of their fairly major mistakes.  Enough bugs can denegrade the oil in days.


Something massive happened and it happened quickly on or adjacent to the rig floor access which is why none of the guys on the floor survived.

[CJS3]

By whom and where? And who's motivation?
FQ13 who is asking, not arguing

By you. The ONLY motivating factor to BP is to cut it's losses. Recover as much oil as possible (the product it sells) and to make sure that the "bitch slappin" it has to take in an American court room is as short and sweet as possible.

[MikeBjerum]

This thread is starting to take the same turn as the main stream media and the tree huggers.  Who actually believes that BP doesn't want to do the best or right thing here?  What is best for the nation and the ecology is best for BP!

BP is losing money with every gallon of oil that spills out of those leaks.  They lose money in terms of product to sell, cost of clean up, and cost in the courtroom due to both legitimate and frivolous law suits.  BP does not want this to happen, and they don't want to ignore it.  They want to work with all involved for the best possible solution.

A major item gets lost in all this oil bashing:  This is one incident!  Who many rigs are out there drilling and pumping day in and day out for decades?  How many tankers are coming and going every day?  How many wells are pumping in shallow water and on dry land today?  How many pipelines are flowing full of crude and all kinds of refined product?

Sure this is a major event, but in terms of the entire industry and its daily production this is nothing!  Just like comparing gun deaths to motor vehicle deaths and realizing how safe guns really are, compare the oil industry to others and be amazed at how safe it really is.

Now back to hoping and praying for this problem to be solved, contained and cleaned up soon!

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

well....
this is where I came up with my screen name, Deepwater. I used to work on these rigs. almost five years, ....................
.
when I left Transocean they did not offer higher wages for extra time on the ship or rig, in fact they often discouraged it to keep people from burning out. ..........
. either way, I hope the 11 that are missing are found well and safe.
deepwater

The discouraged extra work is what I remember too.  The "boat people" are maritime as compared to the rig people and operate differently...as was the case when I last worked or managed offshore operations.  I don't doubt the boats work that way, i.e. hands can work all they want.  I remember deck hands weren't paid so well compared to the guys on the platforms.   Does anyone know the significance of Camp Street   ?

I hope they are found too.  

Also, the engineers said that there would be freezing of the chamber if lowered on the wells...what's the status of that thing right now?

[philw]

 
Also, the engineers said that there would be freezing of the chamber if lowered on the wells...what's the status of that thing right now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8670895.stm

The unprecedented plan was to lower it 5,000 ft (1,500m) by remote-controlled submersibles over the main leak and then funnel the oil by pipe to a waiting tanker on the surface.
But a build-up of crystallised gas inside the box blocked the exit at the top and the device had to be put aside on the seabed for engineers to ponder their next move.
"I wouldn't say it's failed yet," said Doug Suttles, chief operating officer for the BP, the company responsible for the clean up.
"What I would say is what we attempted to do last night didn't work," Mr Suttles told reporters in Robert, Louisiana, on Saturday.
"As we were placing the dome over the leak source a large volume of hydrates formed inside the top of the dome, requiring us to move the dome to the side of the leak point.

[twyacht]

Appears, the "Methane" angle is being used quite a bit. The Coal miners here in the U.S. encountered methane, and also a mining accident currently in Russia is blaming methane.

News groups that have interviewed a few rig workers also said a methane "bubble" was a possibility.


STEVEN MUFSON AND MARK KAUFMAN
May 10, 2010
www.Gmpcs-US.com

A BUBBLE of methane that forced its way up from beneath the ocean floor caused last month's oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico, according to workers who survived the blast.

The gas shot up the drill column, expanding rapidly as it rose, and burst through a series of seals and barriers before exploding, triggering an even larger blast when the oil that gushed up behind it ignited.

The fullest account so far of events surrounding the blast on April 20 - which killed 11 workers and has led to more than 11.4 million litres of crude oil pouring into the sea - has emerged from an internal investigation into the accident by BP, the oil company that leased and operated the rig.


***

My layman question is, how did it damage the blow-out preventer? Aren't they required to have two of these devices.

[Rastus]

..............
My layman question is, how did it damage the blow-out preventer? Aren't they required to have two of these devices.

We'll just have to wait to see.  These are manually actuated (manual instruction as opposed to automatic instruction) from the surface to the seafloor.  Many things are possible. 

BOP's are installed and all operations take place through them once they are installed.  We drill through them, cement through them, address well control issues through them and a myriad of other operations.  Deepwater would be more familiar with the subsea aspects of when they are installed, tested, etc. 

Again, we'll get the straight skinny from the MMS on what happened to cause this tragedy.  We never will hear about the USCG Rear Admiral's faux paus that made it worse.

[deepwater]

Worst in the Gulf. There are two things to consider. The first is that BP seems almost criminally negligent here. There was an article in today's Palm Beach Post with survivor interviews. What stuck me about all these was the work pattern. 21 days on and 21 days off. Now, not so bad, but the the 21 on were 12 hour days seven days a week. No days off, no half days etc. I'm sorry, but I call BS on that. No one can do 21 12 hour shifts dealing with physically demanding and exhausting work and not be mistake prone. BP should have seen this coming. The 21 day shift is fine, but lets at least make it 3, 4hr days in the mix to let folks sleep.

Second thing to consider is this this.The Gulf states make a hell of a lot more money from commercial and recreational fishing and beach tourism than oil drilling. If oil drilling cuts down on seafood production and tourism, drilling loses. Its just simple economics. No enviro-politics just dollars. Drill baby drill? Well first show us the money, otherwise, go talk to Sarah.
FQ13

,

at this moment, I am doing my midnight round, I stay awake until 2300 hrs and return to the engine room (I am an engineering type, or 'snipe') for 1 hour. I start my day at 0800 hrs and end the day at 2000hrs. so far I have been aboard for 100 days.  maybe some folks can't take the hours and days etc... but then not everyone can be an engineer... 
seriously, 21 days at 12 hrs. per day is easy, especially in the oil field. the days fly by due to the work. also remember, your meals and bed are only a few feet away at all times. no commuting or any of that other bs. 12 hrs off is 12 hours of whatever you want.. work out, watch tv, movies, play cards... whatever.

Subsea.. I worked many weeks of overtime.. staying aboard during my time off, to work on subsea equipment. ours was (Horizon's was the same) double redundent from the ship with backup systems (manual) on the BOP itself. if we lost control from the surface we could send and ROV (submarine, and yes, they do have them on the ships) down to pull valves to operate the BOP. there are several ways to isolate with the BOP. 1. squeeze the pipe with anular valve, 2. squezze pipe with a sized ram that fits snuggly around the pipe and isolates the well from the riser and 3. sheer the pipe with a 'sheering ram' this cuts the pipe and isolates the well. after deciding on one of these actions they would pump weighted fluid through the 'choke and kill'  lnes. this puts pressure on the rock formation and presses the gases back into the rock/shale.  you all following this?  anyway, the equipment should be tested OFTEN. we would check periodically and before every new evolution of the well. safety, safety, safety...   


I left Transocean for a couple of reasons, one being the way they treated the original Reading and Bates employees. like red headed step children. we had taken the ship from the ship yard and literally moved several million pounds of steel on and off the ship and drilled several wells without a single incident/injury. that is impressive. also had a loyal and close crew that was split up when another Transocean rig was 'laid up' or out of work. they sent the out of work guys to take our places and sent a lot of my friends home. if Reading and Bates was still around I would not hesitate to work for them. well, my midnight round is done, must be going now,
deepwater