Vertical foregrip on AR15?

[jimonfly]

I was listening to Michael Bane's podcast from last week today and he said something about soldiers coming home from the Middle East and changing their shooting grip on their AR's.  He didn't go into any detail, other than take a class.  I assume he meant adding vertical grips to the fore-end (?).

I grew up shooting small bore, then high power in college (20 years ago).  I always used a sling in position, and use a hasty sling when shooting off-hand (hunting, etc).  My new AR carbine has a vertical foregrip on it, but I really don't like it.  I've tried to place it in different positions along the rail, but nothing is more comfortable than using the mag well, or just the fore-end.  Now I've seen the new MagPul fore-grip that is angled.

What am I missing here?  Is the vertical grip the way to go?  What are real users of the AR/M16/M4 doing with their support hand that I'm not, or that's better than what I learned 20 years ago?

Michael, what did you mean by changing the way they shoot?

[fightingquaker13]

I was listening to Michael Bane's podcast from last week today and he said something about soldiers coming home from the Middle East and changing their shooting grip on their AR's.  He didn't go into any detail, other than take a class.  I assume he meant adding vertical grips to the fore-end (?).

I grew up shooting small bore, then high power in college (20 years ago).  I always used a sling in position, and use a hasty sling when shooting off-hand (hunting, etc).  My new AR carbine has a vertical foregrip on it, but I really don't like it.  I've tried to place it in different positions along the rail, but nothing is more comfortable than using the mag well, or just the fore-end.  Now I've seen the new MagPul fore-grip that is angled.

What am I missing here?  Is the vertical grip the way to go?  What are real users of the AR/M16/M4 doing with their support hand that I'm not, or that's better than what I learned 20 years ago?

Michael, what did you mean by changing the way they shoot?

I'm curious as well. To me, the only thing the vertical grip would seem to offer is better contol on full-auto, otherwise it just seems unneccessary and another dangling part to get hung up on stuff. Obviously either I'm wrong or there are a lot of suckers out there. Given those choices, I'd bet on me being wrong. What does it do?
FQ13

[m25operator]

I will interested to see what the actual answer from the sand box is, but some of the shows that were showing Black Water training, showed the very forward grip on the forend, with the weak index finger along the forend to quote " drive the rifle"
I do find this to work very well, I also have used the magwell grip and it works well for the shorter barrels and in house clearing drills, where you are going from low ready to address the target, I do not like vertical fore grips, although I have one on my main defense rifle, why? Because it houses and protects my weapons light pressure switch. If it is night time, my weak hand is on that grip, and all I have to do is squeeze, to get my target illuminated. I do like the grip/pod, but the good ones are pricey for what they are to me, 80 bucks +.

[bucktracker]

Magpuls AFG (angled foregrip) is one of their theory based products that eliminates the problem of the vertical foregrip. Grabbing the vertical foregrip puts the weight of the rifle on top of your hand which causes a mechanical over sway (the gun becomes unstable)  new techniques use the vertical foregrip as a reference point only. Magpuls AFG aligns your arm and hand to aquire a more dominating grip on the gun which results in better recoil control and faster follow ups. The AFG is not for everyone. One must agree with this technique.
I highly recommend all of Magpuls video's. This technique is demostrated in "the art of the tactical carbine" vol 2.

[fightingquaker13]

Magpuls AFG (angled foregrip) is one of their theory based products that eliminates the problem of the vertical foregrip. Grabbing the vertical foregrip puts the weight of the rifle on top of your hand which causes a mechanical over sway (the gun becomes unstable)  new techniques use the vertical foregrip as a reference point only. Magpuls AFG aligns your arm and hand to aquire a more dominating grip on the gun which results in better recoil control and faster follow ups. The AFG is not for everyone. One must agree with this technique.
I highly recommend all of Magpuls video's. This technique is demostrated in "the art of the tactical carbine" vol 2.

Nice post. I've also wondered about this (though not in gunsmith technical terms like "mechanical over sway"). The vertical foregrip on an AR, just like a semi-auto shot gun would seem to give a plus at short range rapid fire (full auto for the M-4, which all copy). However, beyond across the yard distances, it seems that having a full grip on the forearm (prefferably with a sling assisted mount) will give you a more positive interface with the weapon  (eg you can control the darn gun better to put it in non mall ninja speak. When did instrutors stop learning to speak English anyway )? The point is, I just didn't see the vertical foregrip as being all that useful if you don't kick down dors with a full auto weapon for a living. Does the Mag pul grip really solve the problem of a small vs a large (hand sized) rest at say 200 yards? Because if you want a 50 yard weapon, buy an AK. That's just my .02 worth though. If someone has RL experience with both foregrips and without , I would like to hear it.
FQ13

[Sponsor]

[Solus]

One of the Outdoor Channel shows covered this.  Don't remember if it was one of the DRTV group or otherwise, but it showed using the vertical grip like you would the the mag well in the mag well grip.

It positioned the hand and was a point to pull back making a very firm upper body platform.

They demonstrated shooting on one foot with little lose in accuracy or control due to the solid upper body platform.

I noted it as something to look into.  Seemed like a unstable lower body would undermine a strong upper body platform.

Perhaps this was the technique being referenced here?

Edited:  In the show I saw, the grip was used as a reference, close to the mag well as possible or comfortable, with the fingers gripping the fore end with the fingers, but it appeared that some of the palm was down on the grip.  Sort of gripping in the angle of Vert Grip and fore end.

[jimonfly]

Good replies, Everyone.

I am 6'1" and 175#s, not a linebacker by any means.  I have always found that keeping my long, lanky arms as close to my body as possible to be more stable than the support arm towards the muzzle.  That's why I use the mag well for support.  Even when hunting with my BAR, I have always liked my support hand underneath the receiver, while that elbow can be supported on my hip, waist, etc.  One of the Best Defense segments last year recommended a support hand as close to the muzzle as possible in case someone tried to grab the rifle, you had more control and leverage.  While this is a very good point, the likelihood of someone grabbing my rifle while on the range or hunting is very slim.  I don't shoot in many other situations.  I find a pistol more than adequate for home defense, with a flashlight in the off hand, and don't use my AR for home defense.

Bucktracker - when you say using the grip as a point of reference, do you mean still gripping the fore end and not the grip?

Lastly, I enjoy shooting prone, and at one range we are required to shoot off of sand bags.  The VG is difficult to remove for bench shooting, and can be a pain while prone.  For soldiers carrying their weapon with a VG, wouldn't the length pose a problem if they have to go prone (which I assume they do) or while shooting over walls, through windows, etc?

[bucktracker]

Bucktracker - when you say using the grip as a point of reference, do you mean still gripping the fore end and not the grip?



Exactly. Your pinky and ring finger would make contact w/ v grip. Remaining fingers on the fore end w/ thumb pointing towards target