Author Topic: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A  (Read 5926 times)

tt11758

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Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« on: May 13, 2010, 09:46:13 AM »
Haz, I looked but couldn't find anywhere else you had posted this, so........................................  ;D

http://www.infowars.com/kagan-argued-against-second-amendment-in-gun-case/

Quote
In addition to attacking the First Amendment, Obama’s nominee for the Supreme Court also argued against the Second Amendment.

“I’m not sympathetic,” to the Second Amendment, said Kagan.  
 
In 1987 as a U.S. Supreme Court law clerk, Elena Kagan said she was “not sympathetic” toward a man who contended that his constitutional rights were violated when he was convicted for carrying an unlicensed pistol, according to Bloomberg.

The man argued “the District of Columbia’s firearms statutes violate his constitutional right to ‘keep and bear arms,’” Kagan wrote. “I’m not sympathetic.”

Kagan believes the state has the right to impose restrictive gun laws and she disagrees with the language of the Second Amendment.

Kagan told lawmakers last year when she was the nominee for solicitor general that she accepted the 5-4 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller as a precedent of the court.  “There is no question, after Heller, that the Second Amendment guarantees individuals the right to keep and bear arms,” she said.

Kagan, however, added that the Constitution “provides strong although not unlimited protection against governmental regulation,” thus leaving the door open for future regulation.

In answers to written questions by Patrick Leahy submitted in February of 2009, Kagan said: “Like other nominees to the Solicitor General position, I have refrained from providing my personal opinions of constitutional law (except in areas where I previously have stated opinions), both because those opinions will play no part in my official decisions and because such statements of opinion might be used to undermine the interests of the United States in litigation.”

Kagan’s previous stated opinions on the Constitution include her belief that the First Amendment should be modified by the government in order to prevent societal harm.

In addition to papers written in the 1990s on this subject, Solicitor General Kagan argued in favor of prohibiting political speech by corporations. Supreme Chief Justice John Roberts directly criticized Kagan’s argument that the government has the authority to ban political pamphlets.

“The Government urges us in this case to uphold a direct prohibition on political speech. It asks us to embrace a theory of the First Amendment that would allow censorship not only of television and radio broadcasts, but of pamphlets, posters, the Internet, and virtually any other medium that corporations and unions might find useful in expressing their views on matters of public concern,” wrote Roberts.

“Its theory, if accepted, would empower the Government to prohibit newspapers from running editorials or opinion pieces supporting or opposing candidates for office, so long as the newspapers were owned by corporations—as the major ones are. First Amendment rights could be confined to individuals, subverting the vibrant public discourse that is at the foundation of our democracy.”

Justice Kennedy said the law had defended as an illegitimate attempt to use “censorship to control thought.”

In addition to opposing the First and Second Amendments, Kagan has argued against the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment.

According to the New York Times, Kagan said “that someone suspected of helping finance Al Qaeda should be subject to battlefield law — indefinite detention without a trial — even if he were captured in a place like the Philippines rather than a physical battle zone.”

Kagan’s “elastic interpretation” of the Fourth Amendment echoed remarks made by Eric Holder during his confirmation hearing for the position of Attorney General.

In 2009, Obama outlined his policy of preventive detention, without trial, for people he suspects might commit crimes in the future.




Not sure about the rest of you, but I find it (to use a democrat buzzword) "worrisome" that this woman might be sitting on this nations highest court for the next three-plus decades. 

I urge you to, as I have just done, send your Senators an e-mail urging AGAINST confirmation of this enemy of the Constitution.
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fightingquaker13

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 10:04:28 AM »
If those points are represntative of her views (not just cherry picked by InfoWars.com, which is hardly an objective site) than I will join you in sending letters (not e-mails which are worth the paper they are printed on). However, I want to hear from better sources before I decide. The fact is this. We WILL get a liberal. It will change nothing in terms of the court's balance. The only question is whether we get the right liberal. Right now, I think she sounds like a liberal version of Alito in drag. I oposed him since he always seems to favor the state against the individual and in his view, the police can do little wrong. I will probably oppose her for the same reasons. Its not about left or right for me, its about liberty versus the state.
FQ13

Hazcat

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 11:05:08 AM »
More:

Kagan Was ‘Not Sympathetic’ as Law Clerk to Gun-Rights Argument
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By Greg Stohr and Kristin Jensen

May 13 (Bloomberg) -- Elena Kagan said as a U.S. Supreme Court law clerk in 1987 that she was “not sympathetic” toward a man who contended that his constitutional rights were violated when he was convicted for carrying an unlicensed pistol.

Kagan, whom President Barack Obama nominated to the high court this week, made the comment to Justice Thurgood Marshall, urging him in a one-paragraph memo to vote against hearing the District of Columbia man’s appeal.

The man’s “sole contention is that the District of Columbia’s firearms statutes violate his constitutional right to ‘keep and bear arms,’” Kagan wrote. “I’m not sympathetic.”

Kagan, currently the U.S. solicitor general, has made few public remarks about the Constitution’s Second Amendment. The Supreme Court in 2008 ruled, in a case that overturned the District of Columbia’s handgun ban, that the Constitution protects individual gun rights.

As a nominee to be solicitor general last year, Kagan told lawmakers that she accepted that 5-4 decision in District of Columbia v. Heller as a precedent of the court.

“There is no question, after Heller, that the Second Amendment guarantees individuals the right to keep and bear arms and that this right, like others in the Constitution, provides strong although not unlimited protection against governmental regulation,” she said.

Review Denied

The Heller decision left room for states to require registration of weapons. The majority also said the ruling didn’t cast doubt on laws barring handgun possession by convicted felons and the mentally ill, or restrictions on bringing guns into schools or government buildings.

The lower court ruling in the 1987 case, issued by the District of Columbia’s highest court, said the Second Amendment protects only the rights of states to raise militias, and not individual gun rights. The ruling upheld Lee Sandidge’s conviction for carrying a pistol without a license, possession of an unregistered firearm and unlawful possession of ammunition.

The high court refused to hear the case, known as Sandidge v. United States. The memo to Marshall, found in his papers at the Library of Congress, includes a handwritten “D,” indicating that he was among those who voted to deny review.

White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said the position taken in the memo to Marshall reflected the prevailing view of the law at the time.

Reflecting Marshall

During her confirmation hearing to be solicitor general, the federal government’s top Supreme Court advocate, Kagan said she was trying to reflect Marshall’s views when she evaluated so-called petitions for certiorari, or cert petitions. She called herself a “27-year-old pipsqueak” working for a “90- year-old giant in the law.”

“He was asking us, in the context in those cert petitions, to channel him and to think about what cases he would want the court to decide,” Kagan said. “And in that context, I think all of us were right to say, ‘Here are the cases which the court is likely to do good things with from your perspective, and here are the ones where they’re not.’”

Marshall was a civil rights icon before becoming the first black justice. He led the legal fight to dismantle the “separate but equal” regime in public education, arguing the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case.

As a justice, he opposed the death penalty and backed abortion rights and affirmative action. Kagan, now 50, clerked for Marshall during the court’s 1987-88 term and has described him as one of her heroes.

Clues to Kagan

The memos provide clues to Kagan’s potential approach as a justice. Much like Marshall, Kagan might find herself playing defense, at least in her first few years, working strategically to thwart the agenda of a more conservative majority.

Kagan on numerous occasions urged the justice to vote for so-called defensive denials, rejecting appeals from criminal suspects and defendants to prevent his more conservative colleagues from giving more power to police and prosecutors.

She urged rejection of an appeal from an Illinois man whose burglary conviction hinged on evidence discovered when he was stopped, ordered to lie down and searched by police. The search took place even though police lacked the “probable cause” required to make an arrest, Kagan said.

Kagan said she thought the court, if it heard the case, would uphold the conviction. That “would be an awful and perhaps quite consequential holding,” she wrote.

In recent years, Chief Justice John Roberts and four colleagues have joined forces in 5-4 decisions to strike down campaign finance regulations and limit shareholder lawsuits, as well as to protect gun owners’ rights.

B-Minus in Torts

The Marshall papers also include Kagan’s Harvard Law School transcript and glowing letters of recommendation to the justice from her professors. “She is soft-spoken and delightful to be with, but razor-sharp and iron-hard in intellectual give and take,” wrote one, Abram Chayes.

One professor referenced her transcript, which showed Kagan got off to a slow start as a law student. She received a B in criminal law and a B-minus in torts in the fall of her first year, later receiving predominantly A’s in classes including constitutional law.

“Whatever was in her way on those fall term exams, it wasn’t affecting her class performance even during the fall, and evidently was gone by exam time in May,” wrote Frank Michelman, who taught her in a spring property law course and said he had contact with his students starting in September.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aPI35t8uR6Gs
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JC5123

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 11:48:23 AM »
If those points are represntative of her views (not just cherry picked by InfoWars.com, which is hardly an objective site) than I will join you in sending letters (not e-mails which are worth the paper they are printed on). However, I want to hear from better sources before I decide. The fact is this. We WILL get a liberal. It will change nothing in terms of the court's balance. The only question is whether we get the right liberal. Right now, I think she sounds like a liberal version of Alito in drag. I oposed him since he always seems to favor the state against the individual and in his view, the police can do little wrong. I will probably oppose her for the same reasons. Its not about left or right for me, its about liberty versus the state.
FQ13

FQ, Do you have ANY principals that you are unwilling to bend on, discuss, or otherwise throw under the bus? The woman is already anti 1A. Now she is being shown to anti 2A, BHO loves her, she has ABSOLUTELY NO JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE!!!!!! What is left to discuss that would convince you that this liberal sasquach does not belong on the SCOTUS? I'm sorry to say, but your constant openness to all points of view makes most of your arguments look weak. "I will probably oppose her"????  If you truly are for liberty, then you don't want this woman on the court any more that you want swine flu.
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ericire12

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 11:57:56 AM »
More here:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-13/kagan-was-not-sympathetic-as-law-clerk-to-gun-rights-argument.html

NRA takes her on here:
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/05/12/scoring-elena-nra-sizes-up-candidates-record-on-guns/





*Make no mistake.... this is a very calculated move by Obama. He knows her very well - They used to work together at Univ of Chicago - and dispite her "limited paper trail" he knows that she will be a activist justice focused not on the constitution but rather on social justice.
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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #5 on: Today at 08:38:06 PM »

fightingquaker13

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 12:11:57 PM »
JC5123
You've said I will betray my principles, or that I have none.

A few points:
One of my first principles is a belief that humans are rational beings and that disputes can and should be settled by reasoned dialogue rather than force. I realize that this is not always attainable and its why I carry a Glock and support a large military budget. Still, I hold to the principle.

Secondly, the difference between a debate and an argument is that in a debate, you actually listen to what your opponent says, rather than just waiting for your chance to talk (a distiction that is too little valued these days).

This leads to my last point. Why am I only "leaning" against Kagan rather than condemning her outright (bending/breaking/pimping my principles as you would have it)? Its because this is the part of the debate where you listen. I have heard what people say about her. I haven't heard what SHE says. I won't make a decision about her (or any other candidate) until I do.

If this seems wishy washy, I'm sorry, but I don't tend to judge folks until I've heard them speak for themselves. Right now, if I had to vote it would be no. But you can't (or rather shouldn't) make that call until you hear both sides of the story.
FQ13

ericire12

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 12:23:09 PM »
JC5123
You've said I will betray my principles, or that I have none.

A few points:
One of my first principles is a belief that humans are rational beings and that disputes can and should be settled by reasoned dialogue rather than force. I realize that this is not always attainable and its why I carry a Glock and support a large military budget. Still, I hold to the principle.

Secondly, the difference between a debate and an argument is that in a debate, you actually listen to what your opponent says, rather than just waiting for your chance to talk (a distiction that is too little valued these days).

This leads to my last point. Why am I only "leaning" against Kagan rather than condemning her outright (bending/breaking/pimping my principles as you would have it)? Its because this is the part of the debate where you listen. I have heard what people say about her. I haven't heard what SHE says. I won't make a decision about her (or any other candidate) until I do.

If this seems wishy washy, I'm sorry, but I don't tend to judge folks until I've heard them speak for themselves. Right now, if I had to vote it would be no. But you can't (or rather shouldn't) make that call until you hear both sides of the story.
FQ13

So, the bottom line here is that as long as she SAYS she will be a blind justice then you are willing to take her word for it (as well as Obama's) and you would confirm her ???

She has NO judicial experience and therefore there is no justifiable proof that she would be fair and impartial.... IMO, that is an automatic disqualifier - even without the fact that she is being nominated by the most dangerous man in the history of our nation.

Appointing a justice to the court is a monumental moment in our country. It should not be taken lightly because its a liberal replacing a liberal -- she would cement a liberal justice (one who will strive for legal repirations) in that slot for possibly the next 40 years.

I think its a damn shame that the SC has become so political (on both sides), and I personally dont want more of the same. We need to start elliminating the politics of the bench and get back to actual interpritation of the constitution. The never ending 5-4 decisions are a tell tale sign that it has all gotten out of hand, and the senate needs to fight tooth and nail to oppose anyone who is not a true originalist.





*Read the entire thing again, and this time read for content.
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jnevis

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 12:29:59 PM »
From Yahoo News, posted without comment:

- One of the most curious and awkward traditions of Capitol Hill is the practice of shepherding a  Supreme Court nominee to the offices of senators who will eventually vote on his or her confirmation. The visits almost always produce some discomfiting photo-ops, and Elena Kagan's gantlet has been no exception.

 

On Wednesday, for instance, Kagan met with Senate Judiciary Committee veteran Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). Their discussion opened by exchanging pleasantries. "It's a beautiful office," Kagan told Hatch, as they sat  before dozens of photographers clamoring for the perfect shot. "Yeah, well, there's some nice stuff here," Hatch allowed.

 

And that's when it got weird. "You're going to get mad," Hatch said, motioning above the reporters, where a gun hung on the wall. "Man of the Year from the National Rifle Association ," the senator explained. "It's a piece of art, really."

 

Kagan, an amused look on her face, nodded. "It's beautiful," she said, staring at the gun.

 

"It's a handmade flintlock, and it's beautiful," Hatch said.

 

"It's gorgeous ," Kagan replied, as the press was hustled out of the room.

 

You can watch the exchange here (video courtesy of ABC News ):   One reason the gun exchange came off as a bit forced is that memos released from Kagan's tenure as a Supreme Court clerk show her saying she was "not sympathetic" to the right-to-bear-arms argument of a prospective Supreme Court plaintiff. (The appellant argued that his constitutional right was violated when he was convicted for carrying an unlicensed firearm in violation of the District of Columbia gun ban.)

 

Still, the encounter could have gone much worse. Hatch could have forced her to listen to his music .

 

When seconds mean the difference between life and death, the police will be minutes away.

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JC5123

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 12:33:02 PM »
JC5123
You've said I will betray my principles, or that I have none.

A few points:
One of my first principles is a belief that humans are rational beings and that disputes can and should be settled by reasoned dialogue rather than force. I realize that this is not always attainable and its why I carry a Glock and support a large military budget. Still, I hold to the principle.

Secondly, the difference between a debate and an argument is that in a debate, you actually listen to what your opponent says, rather than just waiting for your chance to talk (a distiction that is too little valued these days).

This leads to my last point. Why am I only "leaning" against Kagan rather than condemning her outright (bending/breaking/pimping my principles as you would have it)? Its because this is the part of the debate where you listen. I have heard what people say about her. I haven't heard what SHE says. I won't make a decision about her (or any other candidate) until I do.

If this seems wishy washy, I'm sorry, but I don't tend to judge folks until I've heard them speak for themselves. Right now, if I had to vote it would be no. But you can't (or rather shouldn't) make that call until you hear both sides of the story.
FQ13

Why are you willing to even discuss the possibility of this woman appointment? That is what I don't understand. Gotta agree with Eric on this one, The woman has no experience. That alone should disqualify her. I realize that the one appointing her doesn't have any either, but..... ::) This is why I will not listen to their side of the story, as you put it. I don't hire someone who has no experience, no track record, and who I cannot fire to a position where their decisions cannot be challenged. That's not a debate, that's called having your head in the sand.

Pretty much how we got here in the first place.
I am a member of my nation's chosen soldiery.
God grant that I may not be found wanting,
that I will not fail this sacred trust.

Hazcat

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Re: Kagan argued AGAINST 2A
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 12:49:56 PM »
So far it seems she is more than willing to allow the government to set just how far our 1st, 2nd and 5th amendment rights go.  That is flat out unacceptable in a SCOTUS nominee.  She should be withdrawn now!

I just emailed my congress critters.  Y'all do the same.  Don't just bitch, act!

Here is my version:

Honorable Sir,

Miss Kagan is wholly unqualified to be considered as a candidate for the Supreme Court. So far it seems she is more than willing to allow the government to set just how far our 1st, 2nd and 5th amendment rights go.  That is flat out unacceptable in a SCOTUS nominee.  She should be withdrawn now!

I demand that you vote no her appointment.

Sincerely,

xxxxx
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

 

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