Hit this poll and help AZ shut the power off to Calfruit

[ratcatcher55]

Mothers are like that.   

Yes they are.

[ratcatcher55]

Sorry to break everybody's heart but AZ can't do it.  I'm in Ventura County right now and LA news is talking about it.  The power plants and infrastructure that feed LA from AZ are partly OWNED by LA's Dept of Water/Power.  That means that the power being sent is already owned by LA so AZ can't stop the feed.

Unless they own controlling interest they can go pound sand.

[dipisc]

Hi;

    I voted and it was up to 86.1% for pulling the plug. I wonder how liberal MSNBC is going to spin this?

[TAB]

Unless they own controlling interest they can go pound sand.

not when it comes to power generation.  Dave has already made that point in this thread.


Lets just say for the sake of argument they do shut off the power, whats stoping the federal gov to revoke thier permit to produce/transmit/sell power?      No big company is going to take that risk, there is just too much money at stake.

[ratcatcher55]

not when it comes to power generation.  Dave has already made that point in this thread.


Lets just say for the sake of argument they do shut off the power, whats stoping the federal gov to revoke thier permit to produce/transmit/sell power?      No big company is going to take that risk, there is just too much money at stake.

Tab,

I agree with you that they won’t because utilities are in the business of making money.
You need to sell power to somebody to pay the overhead of the plants.

But a couple of points:

California as a government has violated interstate commerce by banning its entities from doing business with Arizona without due process.

A utility could renegotiate a rate contract to provide power to a customer. They raise my rates when they want after a dog and pony show hearing.

The share holders could ask the utility not renew the contract especially if they found customers in other states, TX, NM, UT, and NV.  If California utilities can not do not control 51% of the shares there is nothing they can do about it.

We did a security assessment for some plants and the number they gave us was that they earn about a million dollars an hour of production. You could pay a lot of fines with that, or pay a lot of legal fees to string out the process.  You could say screw the fines.  Closing the plants works to Arizona’s squeeze on California.

Could Uncle Sam seize the plants and run them?  Yes, but that would ratchet things up to an even higher state of tension.

What would loosing a permit really due?  Would the people of Arizona suddenly say those electrons don't have a the Federal Housekeeping Seal of Approval?  The operators are suddenly incapable of throwing switches because DOE yanks a piece of paper?

Once again I agree with you but it's would be nice to see somebody stand up to the PC idiots.

[Sponsor]

[Rastus]

Ya'll miss the point.  It would not be a company that shuts off the power it would be a government entity who would shut off the power and I guarantee there could be court action and some judge that would agree and allow it to go off.

Four hours in the hot afternoon would be a good first shot.  

Screw FERC.  A legal judicial order halting power delivered to a state government would insulate the Arizona regulatory authorities and would obligate a corporation to follow the judicial order or face fines and/or jail time.  Who would want to do time in Arizona with all the illegals in jail, I would take my chances with Club Fed.  

I see all the fines, I understand and am not impressed; having worked with two oilfield contracts in Texas with 18-20 MW useage I do have some understanding of the costs and penalties.  Ho hum on FERC if a court orders the power off...that is not the same thing as those fines that were listed...different animal all together.  They cannot use their powers to punish someone when the order would come from a state government supported judicial order, not a company (imagine state police at the gates denying entry).  The company would be obligated to follow a state supported, court ordered action.  It might get appealed or stayed at the 11th hour or not, but there would be no FERC fines in that scenario to the company that is the pawn.  That would be the scenario that a regulatory agency would take unless they have outright ability to shut off the power (unlikely).

[Solus]

Yeah...I bet if LA lost 30% of it's power supply because the city boycotted AZ over them enforcing federal law in their state a lot of citizens would rather give up their lawn service than AC or HDTV. 

Maybe this would be a good chance to sell some of the rope stockpile at premium prices.