The future of handguns: will we ever get any fundamental changes?

[tombogan03884]

Timothy, 2 things about your posts
" Expanding gases forcing a mass through a cylinder and propelling it in the desired direction.  "

That is one thing that is already changing with that "MetalStorm" system that was mentioned. In that system an electromagnet propels the round , the cyclic rate is limited only by the speed of electrons.
Heck, people have already built guns that work on centrifugal force instead of pressure  

The other thing,

"Most of the gun innovations over the last 150 years were driven by the War Dept or Pentagon.  We're not seeing that anymore and what's changed is private company development will stagnate due to a lack of funds.  Competition today is driven by a commercial market with limited dollars to spend.  It really boils down to who want's to take the most risk with no guarentee of return."

I think you, like Samuel Colt, underestimate the power of "commercial" sales. S&W focused on the commercial market, so did H&R and Iver Johnson.

One place we will see innovation now is in the Business model.
We now have the answer to "What is Cerberus up to?"
MB's podcast this week mentions that Freedom Group is going public,  Think of it as "America's AR made by America's Company" because most of the stocks will be bought up by mutual funds to help finance retirements, same as with oil  

Let me thump the bible of JMB for a second   -
The last real innovation IMHO - and it died quickly - was the gyro-jet handgun. And this is where the answer to Why? comes in - the next innovation will be where an innovation in the projectile drives innovation in the delivery system ala the gyrojet.

I can't recall the name of the outfit more recently, went out of business too IIRC, but they had a magnetic multi-projectile launcher, could shoot thousands of projectiles electrically fired. Something like that. Or not, that is the nature of innovation - you don't know what will come or from which direction.

Update - the company is Metal Storm and apparently they are still around. - http://www.metalstorm.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,79/

Amen to that sermon  
The reason the Gyro Jet never took off was it's awe inspiring lack of accuracy.
Instead of spinning to achieve stability in a straight line the little rocket spiraled through the air and it's POI could be anywhere in the diameter of the spiral.

Overload, the reason Ti. pistols faded out was because China bought a butt load of it and drove the price up 300%+

Why?

Cuz we are intensely curious tinkerers.  
On the annaversery of the conquest of Mount Everest I can best answer your question by pointing out,
"Because it's there".

[fightingquaker13]

Cuz we are intensely curious tinkerers.  
On the annaversery of the conquest of Mount Everest I can best answer your question by pointing out,
"Because it's there".

There is nothing more dangerous on God's green earth than a smart and curious redneck with a good set of tools! We will find something new. Whether it becomes commercially viable is a whole different question.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

This is a cool thread, I'd like to hear the ideas for future research, Lasers, can we make a battery pack small enough to make a "Rail gun" practical for CCW ?

By the way, I believe Knight's Fire Arms made a muzzle loader that utilized some sort of electric firing device to ignite the cap.
Of course electric switches have been used in place of triggers for ages, I believe Remington once offered a push button trigger on a high end custom target /competition model

[Rob10ring]

I think Overload is right about old cartridges and pressure limits. That could mean that the .45 acp has gone as far as it can go, even though that's pretty good. Maybe we allow these other newer cartridges, like .45 GAP, to die too soon. Does the GAP allow for the higher pressures and could you expect at least acp performance from the smaller cartridge? If so, it's a shame what's happening to that round. All of the GAP guns are being liquidated cheap at the local shops.

[TAB]

This is a cool thread, I'd like to hear the ideas for future research, Lasers, can we make a battery pack small enough to make a "Rail gun" practical for CCW ?

By the way, I believe Knight's Fire Arms made a muzzle loader that utilized some sort of electric firing device to ignite the cap.
Of course electric switches have been used in place of triggers for ages, I believe Remington once offered a push button trigger on a high end custom target /competition model

just a little FYI, the ATF says any electornicly fired gun that is not manuelly loaded( bolt action, lever gun, single shot) is a Machine gun. 

[Sponsor]

[Timothy]

I think you, like Samuel Colt, underestimate the power of "commercial" sales. S&W focused on the commercial market, so did H&R and Iver Johnson.

Good point.  I don't underestimate but realize that we all balance our checkbooks at the end of the month and when we see red, we stop spending.

The Fed will just continue to print more which gives them unlimited resource in our tax dollars.  It's the same people paying for the R&D but one is doing it willingly while the other is confiscating our money and spending it against our will.

[fullautovalmet76]

just a little FYI, the ATF says any electornicly fired gun that is not manuelly loaded( bolt action, lever gun, single shot) is a Machine gun. 

Understood, TAB. But the purpose of this thread is to stimulate ideas about what could be possible or might be, so let's suspend the ATF for a bit.

I have read some good stuff here already. And I do believe that sometimes over a few beers the creativity can be greatly enhanced!  So moderate consumption is encouraged, if that is what gets your creative and intellectual juices flowing. 

[jc451911]

By the way, I believe Knight's Fire Arms made a muzzle loader that utilized some sort of electric firing device to ignite the cap.
Of course electric switches have been used in place of triggers for ages, I believe Remington once offered a push button trigger on a high end custom target /competition model

Remington marketed an 'electrically fired' M700 'EtronX' VSSF rifle around 1999 and used a specially primed cartridge, generally varmint rifle calibers like .22-250, .220 swift, and .243 Win. I also remember there being interest shown in the basic mechanics/electronics by S&W(prehaps others as well) at the time, the reduction or complete elimination of 'lock time' was the primary advantage and seling point. It was supposed to eliminate the 'human error' factor from the firing sequence. It was discontinued ~2004 IIRC due to lack of sales and ammunition availability issues.

Perhaps something like this system will become the wave of the future by incorporating the zero lock time ideal to defensive firearms or military/ LE weapons? The cyclic rate of selective fire types weapons would be phenomenal.

Once it's perfedted of course.......

Here are some links to the EtronX.....
http://www.gunweek.com/2003/feature0210.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/survival/gear/1277311

[fightingquaker13]

I just don't think an energy weapon would be as fun to shoot as a projectile weapon.

I call bullsh@t on that! Fuzz, set phasers to stun. Tell me you haven't wanted to say that with a straight face.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

As urbanization spreads and we start pushing for more ranges I think a turn around on the general attitude toward suppressors may occur where the former impression of  "assassin tool" changes to a safety issue and a matter of noise reduction.
That would bring to market handguns and long guns designed with integral suppressors, instead of as an accessory.