Florida comes through again

[PegLeg45]

Guns are not addictive (Yes they are like chips, but you know what I mean). They dont cause crime, they dont cause child neglect, they dont impare driving, they dont diminish your health, and I have never heard of a single case of anyone ever sucking a dick to get a gun... Need I go on?

I'm staying out of the main argument...........but, I would like to let you know that is exactly how a good friend's wife ended up with a brand new Glock 27 (she likes guns)...........    

I know, I know....that's not the same circumstance you were getting at...but...none-the-less.....


(That makes one case)    


And now I return you to your regularly scheduled debate......    

[SwoopSJ]

I'm staying out of the main argument...........but, I would like to let you know that is exactly how a good friend's wife ended up with a brand new Glock 27 (she likes guns)

That could be the inspiration for a new and very interesting song / video for Steve Lee.   

Swoop

[tombogan03884]

, and I have never heard of a single case of anyone ever sucking a dick to get a gun..

I'm staying out of the main argument...........but, I would like to let you know that is exactly how a good friend's wife ended up with a brand new Glock 27 (she likes guns)...........    

I know, I know....that's not the same circumstance you were getting at...but...none-the-less.....


(That makes one case)    


And now I return you to your regularly scheduled debate......    

Well, so much for that theory  

The "War on some drugs" was never an "attempt to stem the tide", it was a racist jobs program for Prohibition agents who were losing their jobs.
Am I the only one who noticed that the arguments against legalization are just like the ones against guns, based on emotion, opinion and prejudice. while I also am not citing any hard numbers, I WILL put forward my source material which comes from Glenn Beck, "Arguing with Idiots, and Larry Elder " 10 Things you can not say in America".
By saying legalized drugs cause crime you are just as F-ed up as people who say guns cause violence.
The fact is, as any one with an open mind and an ounce of sense will realize, these problems are both caused by irresponsible behavior of a person and no rational person would attach blame to an inanimate substance or object.
The cure is not "drug control, or gun control. It is self control.

[Walter45Auto]

That could be the inspiration for a new and very interesting song / video for Steve Lee.   

Swoop

I'd bet Phil will try to write it for him now.

[ericire12]

Re Peg's comment: So is that the story behind your Glock 27?!



Re Toms last comment: Yes, its the same rhetoric that the gun grabbers use, but that does not mean that it does not apply here and you certainly cant write it off just because drugs are technically inanimate objects. Its not that simplistic, Tom. Guns dont really have mind altering capabilities nor are they chemically addictive. Once a person picks up a gun they still have the cognative ability to tell right from wrong and are still able to control their choices and actions. People on drugs however dont really have much control over what they do when they are strung out.

Drug use does indeed cause crime. People that are strung out on heroin, meth, crack, etc do reach a point where they will do damn near anything to get their next fix - Exhibit-A being my earlier "suck a dick for crack" reference. (bonus points for anyone who can give me the movie thats from ) They will hurt the people they love, they will do felonious things that will send them to prison... they dont care... They are controled by a chemical addiction and must get another fix.

Its also not a stance based on emotion... Opinion is nothing more then a judgement... and there are many facts out there to help in making an informed judegement.... claiming prejudice is also a stretch.

[Sponsor]

[crusader rabbit]

Drug use does indeed cause crime. People that are strung out on heroin, meth, crack, etc do reach a point where they will do damn near anything to get their next fix - Exhibit-A being my earlier "suck a dick for crack" reference. (bonus points for anyone who can give me the movie thats from ) They will hurt the people they love, they will do felonious things that will send them to prison... they dont care... They are controled by a chemical addiction and must get another fix.

Eric, as you have likely observed, you and I are usually on the same side.  But the point you present here is a very strong argument for de-criminalization/legalization of drugs.  If both addicts (hard drugs) and casual users (grass, uppers, downers, etc.) were able to go to their local 7-11 and purchase whatever they wanted at a fair price without a huge mark-up going to organized crime and drug cartels, and with a nominal tax going to defray the national debt, there would be less crime.  Even a heroin addict could collect enough cans and bottles to afford a days worth of dope IF the dope had a price tag of say $10.  Crack is an adictive drug, yes.  But it's also really cheap to make. Certainly, we'd be tossing some people of the trash heap of life.  But, these are the people who would be a failure at life anyway.  Are they worth salvaging?  Maybe, and the tax from drug sales could go to treatment facilities for those who want to kick.  I think they would get little patronage.  And, without the huge profit, the cartels would be out of business almost overnight.  Drug dealers?  Who needs 'em when you can get your kicks at the mini-mart? 

Now, please understand I am not pro-drug use.  But I am pro-common sense.

Submitted by Crusader who would like a sane approach to street drugs and to drug cartels.

[Timothy]

According to the stats, there are about half million crack addicts in the U.S. at any given time compared to 12-13 million people who are abusing Vicodin.  Hyrdocodone addiction cost the U.S. about 500 billion dollars annually.

Where do we think we're going with this.  Crusader makes the most valid point of this discussion, hands down!  Addicts are always going to be addicted to something.  That's why they're always "Recovering"!

[PegLeg45]

Re Peg's comment: So is that the story behind your Glock 27?!

AAArrrgh...the birrrd says NO!!!!

[ericire12]

According to the stats, there are about half million crack addicts in the U.S. at any given time compared to 12-13 million people who are abusing Vicodin.  Hyrdocodone addiction cost the U.S. about 500 billion dollars annually.

Where do we think we're going with this.  Crusader makes the most valid point of this discussion, hands down!  Addicts are always going to be addicted to something.  That's why they're always "Recovering"!

Yeah thats kinda my point. I guarantee you that the vast majority of those 13 million people are not living under a bridge or inside a crack house. To sit here and say that there would be the same number of crack heads if you legalized all the hard stuff is a little silly. There would be many fine upstanding citizens that would end up flushing their lives away and taking other clean and sober people with them.

Yes, it would put the catrels out of business, but I think there are many down sides that would also come along with legalization. You cant just give everyone who wants to shoot up a padded room and say "have at it". There will be consiquences... You think you need to carry a gun now? Wait until you increase the number of methed out zombies walking (and driving) around by 20 or 30 percent.

[Timothy]

Yeah thats kinda my point. I guarantee you that the vast majority of those 13 million people are not living under a bridge or inside a crack house. To sit here and say that there would be the same number of crack heads if you legalized all the hard stuff is a little silly.

What I was clumsily trying to emphisize was that I don't think that addiction to crack, methamphetamine or heroin would increase significantly.  Will there be people that my experiment?  Surely, but the problems that come from these cheap drugs is more urban in nature.  My suggestion is that prescription drugs, opiates specifically, cause more harm than any of these street drugs combined. 

I'm 53, to my knowledge, I've never met a crack or meth addict but I'm damn sure I know several ocycontin or vicodin addicts and those are the folks that scare me.  Imagine a guy running a 350 ton press brake who's hopped up on vicodin and not paying attention or a welder who decides he's gonna mess with a power panel and causes an arc flash possibly killing anyone in the near vacinity.  I've worked in industries that are deadly serious business.  What happens on the streets of our cities is nothing in comparison.