Florida comes through again

[tombogan03884]

From Eric :
"Its also not a stance based on emotion... Opinion is nothing more then a judgement... and there are many facts out there to help in making an informed judegement.... claiming prejudice is also a stretch."

Reference something.

"Yeah thats kinda my point. I guarantee you that the vast majority of those 13 million people are not living under a bridge or inside a crack house."

How many people are living in crack houses Eric ?
You have no clue.
You are just parroting bs that has been brain washed into you.  The sad part is that you more or less said that you had no dog in the fight, you don't care.
You're a Brady.

[SwoopSJ]

My suggestion is that prescription drugs, opiates specifically, cause more harm than any of these street drugs combined. 

I agree 100%!  Addiction to pain medication has reached epidemic proportions and it spans all social classes and age groups.  It's hard to fathom just how many accidents, robberies, etc., are due to the abuse of prescription pain medicine.  People make comments about the desperate acts of those addicted to crack, meth, and heroin, but they have nothing on some individuals looking for their next pill fix.  I've seen it myself.  When it comes right down to it though, these people are predisposed to addiction and would be desperately hooked on something, no matter what.  It is my opinion that legalizing drugs would decrease the crime rate, however.  Think about it... how many more alcoholics would resort to crime to fund their addiction if beer were $50 a case?

Swoop

[ericire12]

How many people are living in crack houses Eric ?
You have no clue.
You are just parroting bs that has been brain washed into you.  The sad part is that you more or less said that you had no dog in the fight, you don't care.
You're a Brady.

Its a logical conclusion that I've come to of my own free thinking..... Hell, we have one DRTV member who according to him has been addicted to pain killers. Is he a junky who lives in a crack house?

The dog I have in the fight is (as stated earlier) I dont want to live in a society where any and all drugs are legal.





Exit Question: All of you who feel so strongly about the dangers of prescription drugs, are you willing to make those legal to buy at the Quicky Mart as well?

[crusader rabbit]

Okay, Eric let's take the thought of legalizing this crap a little ways down the road.  Do you think anybody gets up in the morning and says, "This looks like a good day to get addicted to something--maybe I'll try meth or crack."  Of course not.  The addict is always introduced by someone who does have a dog in the fight--namely, a pusher, or a friend who thinks he can become a supplier and get his own crap for less money.  Legalize the stuff, and you put the supplier/pusher out of business.  Why would a pusher risk his own neck to get others hooked if he isn't going to make any money by supplying drugs?  There is only one answer:  he won't.  So, your arbitrary number of crack heads begins to be reduced by attrition.  Certainly, there will be some who try it to see what all the fuss is about and get hooked, but they are society's losers.  Make it all legal.  Even the pharmaceuticals.  Control it, tax it and make some money off of it, but make it legal.  Abusers of pharmaceuticals should be able to get their stuff at the 7-11 just like the alcholohics, and we as a society should have the same proscriptions against driving while high that we have against driving drunk.

Submitted by Crusader who is doing his best impersonation of a true Libertarian.

[Timothy]

Hell, we have one DRTV member who according to him has been addicted to pain killers. Is he a junky who lives in a crack house?

Actually Eric, I said it took me a year to get off the pain killers.  We (my family and doctors) knew it was going to be a struggle but in order to control the pain of my injuries, it was a necessary evil.  Was I addicted?  Probably, but I had the knowledge and the presence of mind (and the support of my family) to control the issue and live with the eventual withdrawl.  I took prescribed medications for the pain involved and slowly weaned myself off of the drugs with the help and guidance of my physicians.

I'm only speaking of myself, more than twenty surgeries, four months in the hospital and the pain I'll have for the rest of my life!

Today, I take nothing for my daily discomfort.  On occasion, I'll take some ibubrofen for a headache...I flushed hundreds of pain meds after they were no longer needed.  There were more than enough folks willing to buy them from me at a considerable profit.

[Sponsor]

[ericire12]

The argument that you can just legalize everything and that there will be little to no effect on society is pretty weak.

At the very least it would become alcohol on steroids and have the same effects on society but impact a far greater number of people then just what alcohol does. Prohibition works on a macro level.... even for alcohol (once again, I dont want to make alcohol illegal):

There is evidence that county-level restrictions on alcohol sales lower the rate of alcohol-related motor vehicle fatalities. Saffer and Grossman [14; 15], Chaloupka, Saffer and Grossman [2], and Wilkinson [17] control for the proportion of a state's population residing in counties where alcohol sales are prohibited and find a negative impact on state-level motor vehicle fatality rates. Winn and Giacopassi [18] report that Kentucky counties which prohibit alcohol sales have significantly lower alcohol-related motor vehicle accident rates. Using county-level data on the state of Texas, Jewell and Brown [7] find that limitations in the number of licensed alcohol vendors could decrease alcohol-related motor vehicle accidents and fatalities.

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=MWtT0dsl6G1BhvP1qPvFYC1y4M3KrTxQYvq6hy17hqkJNY5znCfW!-2112636755!33515697?docId=5001632746







It would also cost an ass load of money just in increased driving fatalities. The cost savings argument is becoming pretty weak:

In part due to these fatalities and injuries, drunk driving crashes cost us over $114 billion in the year 2000 alone. In today’s dollars, that’s about two-and-a-half times what it cost us to bail out GM.

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/drunk-driving-is-the-glass-half-empty/

In 2009 $53 Billion was spent on the war on drugs
http://actionamerica.org/drugs/wodclock.shtml

More figures here:
http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm

[SwoopSJ]

This is my final word on the subject, so I'll just lay it all out.  People are going to do drugs, prescription or illegal, whether the government condones it or not.  Okay, it is possible that there could be a very small increase in the use of the illegal drugs if they were no longer banned.  The point is, however, crime involving them would decrease as they would become more affordable for the users.  Legalization would also eliminate the heavy financial burden of failed enforcement and imprisonment, as well as provide revenue through taxes.  Like I posted before, how many alcoholics would turn to crime (or the previously mention sexual favors) in order to fund their addiction if beer were $50 a case.  Eric, by stating that you don't want to make alcohol illegal, you've devalued your argument against other substances.  It's either all or none, don't pick and choose what's right and wrong for everyone else based on your own habits.  If you like the job the government is doing concerning drugs, feel free to send a check to the DOJ.  I, however, would prefer to see my taxes dollars spent in a more manner more beneficial to society. 

Swoop
 

[ericire12]

Eric, by stating that you don't want to make alcohol illegal, you've devalued your argument against other substances.   It's either all or none, don't pick and choose what's right and wrong for everyone else based on your own habits.

Swoop
 

Come on... you seriously can not be putting heroin/crack/meth on par with beer/liqour

As I stated earlier, I think you can make the case for the legalization of pot. My personal preference would be that it remains illegal and that if someone gets caught with a bag of weed they just write them a ticket and send them on their way.

Pot is not really that big of a deal, and if people want to smoke it I dont really care. All the hard drugs are a very different story.

[twyacht]

Smoking a joint when I was much younger and knew everything, never made me want to steal my own mothers jewelry and sell it as crack does.

Friends, that just used to take a toke or two, never stole their brothers guns and pawned them for crack, friends I went to elementary school with pulled a knife on me when he thought I "might" take his stash.....(of heroin)...

All BS aside, I grew up in one of the most popular drug capitols of the U.S.A. saw childhood friends end up in prison, lose everything to support their habit, and burn every bridge to get it.

Burn a joint, fine,.. big deal,...I been there done that, and got tired of it...The fly in the vaseline, is the crack, meth, heroin.

My wife's brother was a functional addict of heroin for years, worked for the city of Baltimore, and got a bad batch and died at 37.

A waste of a smart man. It all started firing up a joint in the 70's.  Than the chase for the perfect high began.

It was a complete failure, with lethal consequences.

Yes the "War On Drugs" will,.... and will continue to fail, however, I cannot accept a legalization of hardcore drugs.

Just my .02 cents, and humble opinion. I won't BS anyone, (I did inhale, and go down a bad road after my divorce), God, my son, and just being sick and tired of being sick and tired, pulled me out.

and I'm thankful I didn't end up like others I personally knew.

Sorry for the thread drift. But I agree with eric.

[SwoopSJ]

Come on... you seriously can not be putting heroin/crack/meth on par with beer/liqour

I absolutely do!  How many deaths and injuries can be attributed directly to alcohol each year?  (Auto accidents, assaults, etc.)  I guarantee they are EXPONENTIALLY greater than those attributed to illegal drugs.  It's not because of the decreased number of users you think the drug laws maintain, either.  Those who are addicted to "hard" drugs, would have taken that path whether or not the substance were legal.  The addition of a few, who currently refrain due to legality, would be statistically insignificant.  Would we see a decline in suicides if jumping off of a building were made illegal?  As I have stated multiple times, alcoholics would also be characterized as criminals like crack heads and their ilk, if alcohol had not been legalized and therefore made readily available and affordable.  Some people can drink responsibly without causing harm to those around them.  Some cannot.  The same could be said for those who choose to use drugs.  If our government is going to attempt to protect us from those who would abuse a substance, shouldn't they do it for all substances?  I think I have now explained my view point, but my side of the discussion ends here, regardless.  Legalization of drugs is a debate much like politics,  in that neither side will ever persuade the other to agree.

Swoop