Opinions on capacity vs caliber in a ccw

[PegLeg45]

Not speaking for RP, but what I got out of his post was that he was not bashing the .40....just that from what he has seen in his training classes, most shooters shoot the 9mm better than bigger calibers (excepting highly trained pros), and for SD, you should shoot what you shoot best. Therefore, if he were starting over, he would stick with the 9mm.

I may have misinterpreted, but that was just my take on RP's post.....IMHO....and YMMV.

[Overload]

So, does full circle for RP mean he's back to 45acp or 9mm?

[twyacht]

So, does full circle for RP mean he's back to 45acp or 9mm?

The 40 was designed to maximize the caliber (stopping power) of the 45, and the speed of the 9mm, more LE agencies, have adopted the .40 of "any brand" than any other caliber. What do they know?

So, for those that are comfortable with the .40, including a myriad of LE Dept's across the country, it goes back to what one is confident in shooting consistently.

Recoil for those that train with a .40, is no different than a .38 or .327 Magnum,,,,9mm, .45,.....whatever caliber.

12g maybe too much for some, so a .20g is an option,....difference at SD ranges? ......Hardly noticeable.


I was just curious as to a blanket post (from someone "heavily invested in .40") to say they would NEVER have one, if given a chance to start over.

Sure, I respect RP, his credentials and exp. Just was requesting an elaboration to his reasoning. If it's his opinion, fine, we all have ours., and am still just curious.

[tombogan03884]

I'm with TW here, but I figure RP is probably just as busy as MB .
I will be waiting to see what his reasoning is when he gets the chance.

[m25operator]

Go to Robs facebook sight, yes he is a busy, busy man. Check out his pics too, lot of good stuff, some video too.

[Sponsor]

[Rob Pincus]

Not too busy to still check in here...


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I thought I had stated my reasons in the first post I made guys, but the points have certainly been made.. I'll sum up:

-I believe 9mm is "enough" the overwhelming majority of the time.
-Everyone can shoot 9mm better than they can shoot .40 AND you get more bullets in the same size package.
-I've seen very few people who have such a small variance in the way they shoot they .40 and the 9mm that I believe they truly benefit from carrying the .40

****

Recoil certainly IS different from caliber to caliber. Wishing away physics won't change that.
You can put more time into learning to shoot a bigger caliber, but I don't think it is near worth it for the average person who shows up to a training course (which is way above the average CCW holder, which is way above the average gun owner...).

Why doesn't anyone ever want to talk about Wisdom AND Education ??  

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-Rob

[TAB]

about getting more rounds of 9 vs 40.

for those of us in a state with restricted capicity, that means basicly nothing.  also how many round do you actually need, the diffrence between a glock 17 and a glock 22 is only 2 round with the standard mag.  with the optional is the same capcity.  [i know you like glocks]



ps  damn bill gates, my shift keys will not work and its a windows issue.

[jaybet]

Not too busy to still check in here...


****

I thought I had stated my reasons in the first post I made guys, but the points have certainly been made.. I'll sum up:

-I believe 9mm is "enough" the overwhelming majority of the time.
-Everyone can shoot 9mm better than they can shoot .40 AND you get more bullets in the same size package.
-I've seen very few people who have such a small variance in the way they shoot they .40 and the 9mm that I believe they truly benefit from carrying the .40

****

Recoil certainly IS different from caliber to caliber. Wishing away physics won't change that.
You can put more time into learning to shoot a bigger caliber, but I don't think it is near worth it for the average person who shows up to a training course (which is way above the average CCW holder, which is way above the average gun owner...).

Why doesn't anyone ever want to talk about Wisdom AND Education ??  

****

-RobVery simple Rob, Wisdom and Education DON'T GO BOOM!
Seriously, though, I love the 45 acp round. I like the idea of it, the feel of shooting it and everything else. Where your capacity is limited there's still a difference. in NJ I can have 15 rounds- ok for 9mm but there aren't many 45s that hold 15 rounds that I know of.
So if wisdom and education ARE really important (read "skills and shot placement") then aren't I better off with, say 6  rounds of manstopper and some skills than I am spraying 15 rounds of 9mm?
There's really no answer to this debate. If the gun is too big or too heavy to carry you can't defend yourself.

[GrantCunningham]

I'm in possession of my father's B-29 crew manual from WWII. In the section on the 1911A1, it says that a hit on an enemy's hand with the mighty .45 will knock him down due to "hydrostatic pressure."

There are still people who believe that nonsense, but today most people know that it contradicts both the laws of physics and observed behavior.

Yet this idea that the .45 is a "manstopper", and nothing else is, persists. It needs to go the way of the dodo bird.

The reality is that a caliber change measured in tenths of an inch doesn't stop bad guys. What DOES stop bad guys are rapid, multiple, combat-accurate hits. The .45ACP's minor (and increasingly debatable) benefits are outweighed by the negative effects on a shooter's ability to do that.

It's not about capacity, it's about the fact that no matter how well you shoot a .45, you're almost certainly going to shoot a 9mm better - the tired "spray and pray" cliche notwithstanding.

[twyacht]

Thanks Rob,

How about I pick on your education and exp more?

quote:
-Everyone can shoot 9mm better than they can shoot .40 AND you get more bullets in the same size package.,.

Okay, so if someone trains with a larger caliber, with less "capacity", becomes consistent with it,....."stepping down" to a smaller caliber with less recoil, would make the shooter more consistent?  Like going from a .357 to a .38? .38 to a .25?

I ask this for two reasons:

1) I rotate what I carry, somedays, a "leetle" Kel-Tec, .380, somedays, my .38 snub, or my FN9, even my M+P.40.
    QUESTION: Why exclusively excel in one caliber and not others? (For those that have several calibers available)..

2) I'm not talking record Miculek speed or IDPA super times and trophies.
    QUESTION: Wouldn't the ability to be confident, accurate and consistent, regardless of caliber, be a good thing in an SD     situation?

Thanks again for your input Rob. I'm just on the neverending quest for more "wisdom & education" as an "average" shooter.