Author Topic: So, how would you react?  (Read 4616 times)

Hazcat

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So, how would you react?
« on: July 07, 2010, 08:51:00 AM »
by Ralph Routon


Greg Hartman's training was helpful, but he's still dealing with it. 
 
For more about martial arts, or just simple programs such as self-defense for women, go to kempocolorado.com.

It's a Sunday afternoon, you're at a nice marketplace on Powers Boulevard, looking for a certain kind of shampoo, and suddenly a guy says angrily, "Hey, you're not the only one shopping here, asshole."

You answer, "All yours," and start to move away, so the obnoxious person can find his shampoo. Except you look and see him coming at you, brandishing a pocket knife with about a 3-inch blade.

What would you do? Run? Scream? Freeze?

Greg Hartman's reaction two-plus weeks ago was different from most. He's a 47-year-old, second-degree Universal Kempo Karate black belt, and those instincts took over.

If you've been reading the Independent for a while, chances are you might remember Hartman. He has sent us many letters to the editor, though he's not often on the same page politically as the Indy. A native of Kansas, he worked for Focus on the Family's online site as a technical editor for 12 years until his department was shut down a few months ago in favor of outsourcing. Now he's doing similar work for a Denver company but still living in Colorado Springs as he has since 1998.

He and I visited two years ago for a package we did on our most prolific letter-writers ("Type cast," cover story, Jan. 17, 2008), and he talked then about enjoying karate. As he recalls now, "I joked about being too old to fight fair, so if I couldn't avoid a fight I would have to make sure it didn't last long."

Those words proved prophetic on June 13. Amid the job changes, he hadn't been training as much, "but there are some fundamental things that don't go away immediately, like when it comes to defending yourself against a knife."

Like most of us, Hartman has encountered his share of aggressive people, and he says his usual response is "just to walk away from trouble. After all, you don't buy a car to see if the air bags will deploy in a wreck."

But when Hartman saw that knife, in his words, "I had to do something."

What happened over the next 3 to 5 seconds takes Hartman several minutes to explain. He grabbed the guy's wrist, hit him in the face with what's known as a "palm strike" and, when the man wouldn't drop the knife, Hartman pulled harder until the man's wrist popped, either broken or dislocated.

"He finally dropped the knife, and I kicked it behind me," Hartman says. "But then he started to come at me again, so I hit him with another palm strike, and from the sound of it, I'm pretty sure it broke his nose."

That ended the fight. The man stumbled away, and Hartman didn't try to stop him. Instead, he went home.

"I just wanted to remove myself from the situation and try to forget about it," Hartman says. "But if the store had caught it on video and came back to me wanting an explanation, I would've talked to them. As fast as it happened, though, I doubt if anyone could have known what it actually was."

He shared his story with Facebook friends, whose reactions were understandably positive. But in the days since, that incident has affected him in other ways, which is why he contacted me.

"I've spent a lot of time second-guessing myself and feeling crappy about it," says Hartman, who also has multiple sclerosis. "I'm thankful I had the tools when the situation arose, but I would much rather have avoided the whole thing. One friend said it could've been somebody else, and somebody would've been in jail with a victim injured or dead.

"Now I understand why they make cops go to a counselor after they have to shoot someone. I don't think people appreciate them enough. There's a lot of guilt, even though you did nothing wrong, and you wonder if it was really necessary. But a 3-inch blade can do a lot of damage if somebody stabs you in the right place."

We talked more about the police analogy, and how he also knows more now about how soldiers might feel after combat. But it bothers him that he would "not feel very confident" about being able to identify his attacker in a lineup or a courtroom. He just remembers several details: white male, maybe 35 to 40 years old, short brown hair, hoodie, jeans.

"I didn't really look," he admits. "I've scolded myself about not being more alert. I really wish I could've avoided it."

Hartman has learned another lesson worth sharing. Even in our supposedly tranquil village, in a laid-back store on Powers Boulevard, bad things still can happen.

"I used to joke about it," he says, "but it's not really a joke anymore when somebody comes at you with a knife. ... People should not be fearful to go places, and it's smart to do anything to avoid a fight. But still, don't be oblivious to what's around you. Be alert. Pay more attention, inside a store or going back to your car. It's wise to think about what you'd do, just like you have an escape plan if your house is on fire. Because things can get ugly real fast.

"You can't afford to think you're totally safe, because maybe you're not."

Yes, even in Colorado Springs.

— routon@csindy.com

http://www.csindy.com/colorado/between-the-lines/Content?category=1064539&676378

comments at link
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shooter32

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 09:45:22 AM »
by Ralph Routon


"I used to joke about it," he says, "but it's not really a joke anymore when somebody comes at you with a knife. ... People should not be fearful to go places, and it's smart to do anything to avoid a fight. But still, don't be oblivious to what's around you. Be alert. Pay more attention, inside a store or going back to your car. It's wise to think about what you'd do, just like you have an escape plan if your house is on fire. Because things can get ugly real fast.

"You can't afford to think you're totally safe, because maybe you're not."



+1

Thankfully he had the skill set to handle it the way he did, in my opinion a job well done!
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. ~ Gerald Ford - August 12, 1974

tombogan03884

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 12:00:16 PM »
Counseling ? for what was essentially a fist fight ?
That's just as sissified as the Colleges that provided Counselors for the "Empty Holster Protest.

Ichiban

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 12:08:46 PM »
by Ralph Routon

"You can't afford to think you're totally safe, because maybe you're not."

Yes, even in Colorado Springs.

— routon@csindy.com


As a resident of Colorado Springs I have to say Ralph has his head buried in the sand (or somewhere else) if he thinks this town is some bastion of safety.  But then the CSIndy is a very left wing paper so I guess he isn't expected to have a grasp on reality.  I wonder what his reaction would have been if one of the many CCW folks in town had shot this asshole.

twyacht

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 06:56:41 PM »
For those physically able and trained to do so, it ended as it should. Obnoxious idiot gets schooled.

However, what if your not physically able, your only defense is your snub in your IWB, or knife in your pocket, or NOTHING!

Than what..???

Being confronted with a knife? Lethal threat?. Deal with accordingly. 

Guess the idiot's broken nose was lucky, could have been a .45 ACP to the head.
Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:26:15 PM »

Pathfinder

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 08:35:22 PM »
What this guy should be feeling is remorse over a number of other things, and not for cleaning the BG's clock.

1. Call the cops, have the guy busted for ADW
2. Secure the scene, especially the knife
3. MTFU - stop whining. You cannot control the actions of others and if they are behaving like real BGs, you have a right and a responsibility to defend yourself, especially since you have MS.

Are we sure this guy ain't from Boulder? That kind of whining I would expect from there.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do this to others and I require the same from them"

J.B. Books

rat31465

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 09:23:44 AM »
There is one thing about this story that really bothers me....That is the fact that Mr. Hartman had second thoughts about his action from this encounter. 
If he is approached by someone else in the future looking to do him harm will he now hesitate and second guess himself?

In my opinion he reacted with a less than equal amount of force...and in fact showed restraint in not doing even more serious damage to the Bad Guy than he did.
This could have very easily resulted in a death to either party and had Mr. Hartman been in possesion of a firearm and shot the Bad Guy...He would have been justified.

I say Bravo Sir and I only hope that should I find myself placed in this same situation...that I am able to keep my wits about me and react in a similiar manner.
"Get yourself a Glock and Lose that Nickle Plated Sissy Pistol."
Sam Gerard

m25operator

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 08:31:08 PM »
Kudo's to Mr. Hartman, job done, only BG hurt, but it go's back to mindset as to what happens after, during too, but he did what needed to I think his mindset was on course there. Uncle Jeff, said, the 1st thing that should enter your mind in a violent confrontation is rage, " how dare you assault, me and mine? " that go's a long way on justification and nullification when its over.
I'm sure many of us have come close to an assault and all the right drugs kicked in, adrenaline, and all its counter parts, but the battle did not start, but that heavy dose of " I'm about to lose a limb " did kick in, and it has heavy side effects, shaking, tachycardia, etc... coming down off of that is a heavy experience, having that mindset of " how dare you ", lowers the feelings of fear, and turns it where it needs to go. Fear need not be what you did, but what your mind thinks MIGHT happen to you because of it. Lawsuit, maybe I hit the guy too hard, maybe I did not need to react, this guy did what he needed, he won, and now is 2nd guessing himself, that is self defeating, you did right brother, and now understand it, and stand behind it, mad as hell for that person, putting him in that situation.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

Hazcat

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Re: So, how would you react?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 08:00:10 AM »
Kudo's to Mr. Hartman, job done, only BG hurt, but it go's back to mindset as to what happens after, during too, but he did what needed to I think his mindset was on course there. Uncle Jeff, said, the 1st thing that should enter your mind in a violent confrontation is rage, " how dare you assault, me and mine? " that go's a long way on justification and nullification when its over.
I'm sure many of us have come close to an assault and all the right drugs kicked in, adrenaline, and all its counter parts, but the battle did not start, but that heavy dose of " I'm about to lose a limb " did kick in, and it has heavy side effects, shaking, tachycardia, etc... coming down off of that is a heavy experience, having that mindset of " how dare you ", lowers the feelings of fear, and turns it where it needs to go. Fear need not be what you did, but what your mind thinks MIGHT happen to you because of it. Lawsuit, maybe I hit the guy too hard, maybe I did not need to react, this guy did what he needed, he won, and now is 2nd guessing himself, that is self defeating, you did right brother, and now understand it, and stand behind it, mad as hell for that person, putting him in that situation.

EXCELLENT points!
All tipoes and misspelings are copi-righted.  Pleeze do not reuse without ritten persimmons  :D

 

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