Anyone have a Nikon M-233 or Millett DMS-1?

[kilopaparomeo]

I have a DMS-1.  I can't recommend it.

Pro:
+ Inexpensive
+ Lghted reticle is nice...I like the dot-in-a-horseshoe
+ Optics are pretty good for price

Con
+ Large
+ Heavy
+ 1x setting has some pretty severe "fishbowling" at the edges...enough to be distracting
+ I've had it mounted on my SA58 Para...a .308 isn't exactly a hard recoiling round.  The scope has "flaked" inside and there are luminescent bits that are scattered in the field of view.  They are somewhat noticable when the illum is turned off and distracting when it is on.

Maybe I just got a bad one...dunno.  I really like the looks of the new Vortex Viper PST scope.  Not sure if it is shipping yet.  I've been impressed with Vortex as a mid-value line scope.

[usmcdadx2]

My buddy is hauling me to a 3 gun shoot somewhere in the UP this weekend. He claims the guys there will have setups with most of the scopes I'm thinking about so I'll have a chance to check them out under actual use conditions. Thanks for the input you guys have given.

[m25operator]

Nothing beats getting to try them out yourself, although you will probably find what you like, costs more than you like.

[kilopaparomeo]

I started lookiing at that Leatherwood CMR 1-4x.  That looks like a great scope.

+ I like the reticle a lot.  I'm a fan of dot and circle for these types of scopes.  The circle makes for fast up close shooting.  A small dot (1 MOA) helps with longer range precision.
+ I like the ranging set up on the vertical and horizontal stadia
+ The weight is not bad...16 oz is lighter than the DMS-1 and in line with the higher end scopes like the Valdada and Horus.  A little heavier than the Trijicon which runs at 14 oz.
+ The price is definitely right (~$250)

Of course, I don't know what the optics are like, how the reticle shows up in daylight, battery life or long term reliability.  Will do some more research and hopefully order one to try it out.  My perfect set up would be a quick release dual ring mount with a small reflex sight on it (like a Fastfire or Dokter).  This would sit on my FAL Para and / or 6.8 SPC AR.

[bafsu92]

I have a DMS-1.  I can't recommend it.

Pro:
+ Inexpensive
+ Lghted reticle is nice...I like the dot-in-a-horseshoe
+ Optics are pretty good for price

Con
+ Large
+ Heavy
+ 1x setting has some pretty severe "fishbowling" at the edges...enough to be distracting
+ I've had it mounted on my SA58 Para...a .308 isn't exactly a hard recoiling round.  The scope has "flaked" inside and there are luminescent bits that are scattered in the field of view.  They are somewhat noticable when the illum is turned off and distracting when it is on.

Maybe I just got a bad one...dunno.  I really like the looks of the new Vortex Viper PST scope.  Not sure if it is shipping yet.  I've been impressed with Vortex as a mid-value line scope.

It does sound like you got a bad one as I haven't experienced any of those issues with either one I own. I have heard about some quality control issues so maybe I'm extremely lucky getting 2 good ones, especially since I bought one used. I'm not sure how "used" it was when I got it but I've put at least 700-1000 rds. down a HK91 clone and CETME with this scope on top. It is a little heavy but I don't know of any other 1-4's with illumination that are any lighter than a couple ounces. A couple ounces on a 8-9# 7.62 NATO rifle is nothing. If you're setting up a lightweight AR platform this is probably the wrong optic. I'd use a red dot with an auxiliary magnifier in that setup. I've seen the Vortex Viper PST but not for under $400 so it's really not a comparable scope. The Millet is by far the best thing going in the low $200 and under range. Bottom line is you get what you pay for. You may get lucky and get a used scope that was $500-$800 new for $250-$300 used but if you want to spend that same $250 or so for a new scope then there aren't a lot of options out there.

[Sponsor]

[bafsu92]

I started lookiing at that Leatherwood CMR 1-4x.  That looks like a great scope.

+ I like the reticle a lot.  I'm a fan of dot and circle for these types of scopes.  The circle makes for fast up close shooting.  A small dot (1 MOA) helps with longer range precision.
+ I like the ranging set up on the vertical and horizontal stadia
+ The weight is not bad...16 oz is lighter than the DMS-1 and in line with the higher end scopes like the Valdada and Horus.  A little heavier than the Trijicon which runs at 14 oz.
+ The price is definitely right (~$250)

Of course, I don't know what the optics are like, how the reticle shows up in daylight, battery life or long term reliability.  Will do some more research and hopefully order one to try it out.  My perfect set up would be a quick release dual ring mount with a small reflex sight on it (like a Fastfire or Dokter).  This would sit on my FAL Para and / or 6.8 SPC AR.

The Leatherwood does look really promising, I'm going to be looking to pick one up and test it. While we're on the subject does anyone here know of any decent quality QD 30MM mounts for these type of scopes? There's a lot of junk out there. I've got one DMS that is in Millett rings on a HK91 claw mount which was a fairly reasonable setup. The DMS I have on an AR is in a GG&G mount that cost about 80% of what the scope cost. It seems like someone would make a decent QD mount for under $100.

[m25operator]

If you want a true single lever mounting system, your going to pay, GGG and Arms are probably the most reasonable, other than that , I like Leupold quick release rings, that need no tools. Not cheap either, but less than a single lever mount.

[bafsu92]

I like the GG&G mount I'm using now and the levers are a definite plus. I was wondering if there might be a decent thumb screw(s) type mount. Not throw lever quick release but something you can still get off pretty quick without a tool.

[usmcdadx2]

I know that you can sometimes find great prices on used scope but I got burned by a such "great deal" years ago so now I'm leery of used.

On the bright side 70 to 75 guys showed up for the shoot so I got to look at and try all sorts of options. As predicted some of the ones I liked the best were way more than I've got to spend, one guy had a Vadada 2-12x with a Docter mounted on a 45 deg offset mount and he was smoking the course of fire. He let me run an practice course with it and damn it was sweet but at $1300 for just the scope I couldn't even dream about it. In the end after trying out sever setups in my price range I found I shot best and was fastest on 1x target transitions with the DMS even though during the day I didn't/didn't use the illumination. The setup I was allowed to try out was a DPMS Sportical which is very similar to my LoPro. The scope was in a Burris PEPR mount, the glass was very clear and sharp, changing magnification was smooth and when I tested it I could see the illuminated reticule even in the full sunlight. Without the illumination you have a very crisp circle/dot  that just seemed to draw my eye to the target. the dot looks to be about 1 moa in size and worked well on the 300 yard station. I liked it so much that I ordered one as soon as I got home yesterday and it should be her by Friday.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[usmcdadx2]

KPR- for what it is worth; one of the guys was running a Leatherwood CMR on his Bushmaster and he said he has been very happy with it. When I asked him about battery life he said it is as good as any of his other illuminated scopes(don't know if that is good or bad). He said he has had his almost a year and has about 2500-3000 rounds through the gun with it mounted and he has had no problems. The optics on the one he had were very good with clear glass and no edge issues. I couldn't see the illumination quite as well as I could with some of the other IR scopes but it was there. I really liked his but opted for the one that I shot the best with; which in the end, for me, is the only "feature" that really matters.