Guns of Contention: If Philly says no, Florida can say yes

[Hazcat]

By Stephanie Farr
Philadelphia Daily News

farrs@phillynews.com 215-854-4225

n the last two years, Philadelphia police have confiscated guns from at least nine men - including four security guards - who were carrying them legally, and only one of the guns has been returned, according to interviews with the men.

Eight of the men said that they were detained by police - two for 18 hours each. Two were hospitalized for diabetic issues while in custody, one of whom was handcuffed to a bed. Charges were filed against three of the men, only to be withdrawn by the District Attorney's Office.

The civil-rights unit of the City Solicitor's Office confirmed that it is handling eight such cases. Two of the men interviewed by the Daily News said that they rejected settlement offers from the city ranging from $3,500 to $7,500. One accepted a $5,000 offer.

--SNIP--

Two of the security guards said that they were on the job when their guns were taken, and that they were holding licenses issued by the state police to security officers under Pennsylvania Act 235, the Lethal Weapons Training Act.

Despite following the law, all of the men said that they were treated like criminals by city cops who either ignored their rights or didn't know the laws.

Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner, acknowledged that some city cops apparently are unfamiliar with some concealed-carry permits. But he said that it's better for cops to "err on the side of caution."

"Officers' safety comes first, and not infringing on people's rights comes second," Healy said.

--SNIP--

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100831_Guns_of_Contention__If_Philadelphia_says_no__Florida_can_say_yes.html?page=1&c=y

comments at link

[GUNS-R-US]

I'm thinking that any one who lives or travels though that area could use to be a member of the Armed Citizens Network. It would be worth the cost as insurance. Of course I think anybody who carries a gun or keeps one by the bed should be a member too.

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

[texcaliber]

[quote"Officers' safety comes first, and not infringing on people's rights comes second," Healy said.][/quote]

This quote is wrong in Sooo many ways.

Protecting the People's Rights is the REASON for police. Once the Officer's safety is secured, wouldn't you think the Founding Father's knew better and had a clue when those Bill of Rights were drawn up, and call a Commanding Officer who had a Clue.........Not joking it is possible in theory.

tex
 

[fightingquaker13]

This quote is wrong in Sooo many ways.

Protecting the People's Rights is the REASON for police. Once the Officer's safety is secured, wouldn't you think the Founding Father's knew better and had a clue when those Bill of Rights were drawn up, and call a Commanding Officer who had a Clue.........Not joking it is possible in theory.

tex
 

We are agreeing WAY too much here. I about choked on my celebratory glass of wine over Haz's GOOD NEWS post on that one. Since when do my rights become secondary to anything? If you have probable cause for concern? Pat me down, secure the weapon and check the paperwork. No real problem there. Arresting me, confiscating the weapon and throwing me in jail? Sorry buddy, but that don't fly. If you think it does, I'd reccomend a midnight stroll sans gun in South Philly with a cop sign around your neck.
This arrogant Ahole needs to be reminded that he serves at our pleasure, not us at his. Me, I think that rather than being the messenger, he ought to be the message. Fire his ass!
FQ13

[jaybet]

When in Philly we always steered clear of the cops. There's just NO good can come out of even having a conversation with one of them or asking directions, unless someone is trying to harm you. Then it would be 50/50 that YOU would get collared.
They're rough, tough, and don't give a s***. Leftovers from Frank Rizzo.

[Sponsor]

[alfsauve]

Remember, Philly is where they burned down a whole block with incendiaries to get a few radicals barricaded in an apartment.

Their definition of "brotherly love" is certainly different than mine.

[SwoopSJ]

I've posted this before, but Philly is the only place that I've been nervous when walking the streets.  The sad part is, I was in an upscale, "affluent" part of town.  The rough, tough cop factor sure hasn't done much to increase public safety. 

Swoop
 

[fightingquaker13]

I've posted this before, but Philly is the only place that I've been nervous when walking the streets.  The sad part is, I was in an upscale, "affluent" part of town.  The rough, tough cop factor sure hasn't done much to increase public safety. 

Swoop
 

Never does. It just escalates the problem. It makes honest black folks close ranks with the thugs. If the cops are going to see them as criminals anyway, why bother dropping a dime or testifying? It creates an oppositional culture where the ones who need the police the most are taught to hate the cops due to the officers own actions. Good cops need to be taught to think like Green Berets, not Marines.
FQ13

[usmcdadx2]

FQ...Dude you're going to have to explain that Green Beret/Marine thing PDQ. As far as Marines go I've got the two sons and a nephew who are current crop. 3 employees who are "former" and a number of friends that fall into the "not as lean" group. Ok, and one friend that was a Green Beret. All of them mission oriented, focused and bad people to cross...none of them who do not understand honor, commitment and the concept of following ROE's (The law is/should be the cops ROE). They are not cowboys or thugs which is what these cops seem to be.
I don't always agree with your "take" on issues but I can usually follow the reasoning you use to make your arguments this statement however seems without merit.

[fightingquaker13]

FQ...Dude you're going to have to explain that Green Beret/Marine thing PDQ. As far as Marines go I've got the two sons and a nephew who are current crop. 3 employees who are "former" and a number of friends that fall into the "not as lean" group. Ok, and one friend that was a Green Beret. All of them mission oriented, focused and bad people to cross...none of them who do not understand honor, commitment and the concept of following ROE's (The law is/should be the cops ROE). They are not cowboys or thugs which is what these cops seem to be.
I don't always agree with your "take" on issues but I can usually follow the reasoning you use to make your arguments this statement however seems without merit.

What I meant was this. Marines are trained to take and hold an area through force. Green Berets are trained to win hearts and minds and persuade the locals to our side. Support the friendlies and isolate the hostiles. Its as much diplomacy as combat, if not more so. In a ghetto neighborhood that approach is what a good cop needs to do. Not just fixate on catching the bad guys. The Marine (substitute Ranger if you prefer) approach  is about serving warrants, rousting drug dealers and hookers and responding to calls. All of these are important, but still reactive. It also puts the cop in the position of mostly only dealing with the BGs and having that shade their view of everyone in the neighborhood, and the community thinking that a cop talking to them means trouble. A more SF approach is about walking the beat and talking to business owners, getting to know the neighbors, initiating contact with community leaders like preachers and activists and the like. In short, integrating yourself into the community to such a degree that you aren't so much an outsider so much as a part of the community. Obviously this isn't new and has been the model for things like comunity policing and weed and seed programs and the like. It just doesn't sound like the Philly PD has gotten the memo.
FQ13 who was not dissing the Marines (If I do, you'll know it)