Jury duty! Again!

[Solus]

Correct.  And I like to always remember the verdict is NOT GUILT rather than Innocent.   You can be found NOT GUILT and be no where near Innocent.

[tt11758]

Yikes! I never thought I'd say this to a teetotaler  (and I honestly respect that position) because there are a thousand reasons why taking that first drink is a bad idea and damn few as to why its a good one. That said, take a step back and have a beer man! If you are drunk enough that even you should know it, by all means throw away the key. But .08? That's three beers. Not an excessive amount. Just like the drug war, we seem to have lost our minds and come up with a one size fits all system. It seems to me, being a little buzzed (and maybe not knowing it) should be treated differently than being falling down drunk. Sadly MADD seems to have stolen our common sense.
FQ13

Walk a mile in my shoes, FQ, and we'll see if you change your mind.  On October 29, 1991 I watched in the rearview mirror as a car driven by a drunk driver, that I had just successfully dodged, hit a pickup driven by my wife, head-on.  Miraculously, she survived.  Fast-forward 15 years, to October 29, 2006......a drunk driver sideswiped a bridge abutment and bounced into the oncoming traffic lane, hitting an SUV driven by my brother-in-law head-on.  My sister was killed outright, and my brother-in-law died in the helicopter, on the way to the hospital.  Being "buzzed and not knowing it" is the cause of the majority of the alcohol-involved fatalities each year in the United States.  Drink til you can't stand up, I could give a shit less.....just don't crawl behind the wheel of a car.

So as far ass your definition of "common sense" on this subject, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you sit down and STFU.

[billt]

Walk a mile in my shoes, FQ, and we'll see if you change your mind.  On October 29, 1991 I watched in the rearview mirror as a car driven by a drunk driver, that I had just successfully dodged, hit a pickup driven by my wife, head-on.  Miraculously, she survived.  Fast-forward 15 years, to October 29, 2006......a drunk driver sideswiped a bridge abutment and bounced into the oncoming traffic lane, hitting an SUV driven by my brother-in-law head-on.  My sister was killed outright, and my brother-in-law died in the helicopter, on the way to the hospital.  Being "buzzed and not knowing it" is the cause of the majority of the alcohol-involved fatalities each year in the United States.  Drink til you can't stand up, I could give a shit less.....just don't crawl behind the wheel of a car.

So as far ass your definition of "common sense" on this subject, I'd like to respectfully suggest that you sit down and STFU.

Do you happen to know what the alcohol level was in the drivers that caused these wrecks?  Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

As we both know TT, I may sit down, but I won't STFU. I am sorry for your experiences and wonder why your family suffered so much. Your stories are (no pun intended) sobering.
That said, what I had intended to convey was the following:
Lets agree that DUI is bad. Its not just bad, its stupid. If you have the money to drink, you have the money to keep an extra twenty in your pocket to pay for the cab ride home. Someone will take you to your car the next day.
Still, I think we should treat it like any other crime, with varying degrees of culpability. Think of assault. Simple assault, aggravated assault, or felony battery?
.08-.10, that should be one offense. .10- and above? A different story.
That is all Im suggesting.
Peace
FQ13

[billt]

.08-.10, that should be one offense. .10- and above? A different story.

Here I agree. We have to introduce common sense into this somewhere. For example it has been proven in independent tests conducted by law enforcement, that people talking on cell phones and text messaging while driving are far more impaired than someone driving at the "legal limit" be it .08, .1, or whatever. Still more lunacy is here in Arizona it is perfectly legal to ride in the back of an open pickup bed. But if the driver isn't wearing a seatbelt he'll be cited and fined. The problem with some of this legislation is it is designed to attract dollars, but hides behind this nonsense of "being in the interest of public safety". The government doesn't give a damn about anyone's safety, just their cash coffers.  Bill T.

[Sponsor]

[tt11758]

Do you happen to know what the alcohol level was in the drivers that caused these wrecks?  Bill T.

In the first case it was .275.....falling down drunk, but in the second it was "only" .085.

[tt11758]

As we both know TT, I may sit down, but I won't STFU. I am sorry for your experiences and wonder why your family suffered so much. Your stories are (no pun intended) sobering.
That said, what I had intended to convey was the following:
Lets agree that DUI is bad. Its not just bad, its stupid. If you have the money to drink, you have the money to keep an extra twenty in your pocket to pay for the cab ride home. Someone will take you to your car the next day.
Still, I think we should treat it like any other crime, with varying degrees of culpability. Think of assault. Simple assault, aggravated assault, or felony battery?
.08-.10, that should be one offense. .10- and above? A different story.
That is all Im suggesting.
Peace
FQ13

While I don't completely disagree with your above clarification, as far as it goes.  I (for obvious reasons) am more inclined to think that if one's alcohol consumption.....regardless of the amount....causes a crash, then all bets about "degree" of BAC should be moot.

I realize that I have a tendency to become a flaming a-hole on this particular topic, but I think you'll agree that I've earned that right.

[tt11758]

And now, in a feeble attempt to get this thread back on topic, I have personally been called for Jury Duty 3 times.  The first two times were criminal cases, and when the Voir Dire brought to light my LEO background the defense attorneys almost shit themselves in their haste to dismiss me.  The third was a civil case......a personal injury accident case that involved the parents of one of my high school buddies.  When that came to light, the other party's attorney couldn't get me out of the room quickly enough.

The larger point, however, is that while it cost me money to even report, I did so (reasonably) cheerfully because it's my duty as a citizen.  While I will agree that our system isn't perfect, it is still the best one on the face of the earth.

Bill, you know I like and respect you a lot.  But on this topic, we must simply agree to disagree.

[tombogan03884]

Don't base it on Blood alcohol level. Base it on consequences.
My half brother got 7 - 15 for putting a woman in a wheel chair.
Woman up here ran her boat into an island, killing her "Best Friend". 6 months in jail and loss of boating privileges.
Oh, did I mention that THE DAY AFTER her bail hearing, she was clocked by a State Cop at 85 MPH (in a 55 ) He was not going to chase her, but she was talking on her cell phone and almost hit him.
2 weeks after she hits jail she is out on work release, at Daddies Marina.
Now she's even suing to get her boating "Privileges" back.

[billt]

Don't base it on Blood alcohol level. Base it on consequences.
My half brother got 7 - 15 for putting a woman in a wheel chair.
Woman up here ran her boat into an island, killing her "Best Friend". 6 months in jail and loss of boating privileges.
Oh, did I mention that THE DAY AFTER her bail hearing, she was clocked by a State Cop at 85 MPH (in a 55 ) He was not going to chase her, but she was talking on her cell phone and almost hit him.
2 weeks after she hits jail she is out on work release, at Daddies Marina.
Now she's even suing to get her boating "Privileges" back.

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with the entire drinking and driving fiasco in this country. You have people out there with money who are driving with half a dozen D.W.I.'s and more. The reason is the dollar, pure and simple. It's no different than anything else in the justice system. Only here it has become the opposite. Money WALKS and bull$h!t TALKS. It has become all but a joke.

The drunk driver represents the biggest cash cow in traffic court today. Fines run into the thousands. Then comes all of the "Alcohol Rehabilitation Programs", "Traffic Schools", not to mention court costs and attorney fees. Everyone makes money off the drunk driver, and has been for decades, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. It has been said that today a first time offense of D.U.I. or D.W.I., (there IS a difference), will wind up costing the offender over $10,000.00 by the time you add everything up, including the jacked up insurance rates. Think insurance companies hate drunk drivers? Think again. If they did they simply wouldn't insure them. Much the same way health care providers won't take pre existing conditions. They welcome the drunk drivers with open arms because they full and well know they can make a fortune off them.

This country is set up to manufacture drunk drivers by the entire way it operates. First, the cities and municipalities issue liquor licenses at great expense. Have you ever seen a bar without a parking lot? Then they pay a police force to catch as many drunk drivers as possible. They then set up a court system to process and fine the living crap out of them. All of it designed around the almighty dollar, NOT the age old nonsense of "In The Interest Of Public Safety". That has become a total joke.

Ask yourself how these cities would replace all of that revenue if no one drank and drove? It will never happen. In Arizona for example, we have some of the toughest drunk driver laws in the nation. This year drunk driving arrests are once again on the rise in spite of the tougher laws, stiffer fines, "Sobriety Checkpoints", and all of the rest. We even now have the beer and liquor companies telling us to "Drink Responsibly", and "Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Drunk", along with all of the other nonsense that doesn't work, except for getting the monkey off of their back.

This is going to continue simply because there is a profit margin in it, a very large one, and because we as a nation love to drink, and drink a lot. People will continue to drink regardless of what is said or done. Cars will continue to crash, and people will continue to be injured and killed. That is not a defeatist attitude, but rather a realistic one.   Bill T.