Author Topic: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"  (Read 31939 times)

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 10:07:30 AM »
I clean all of my guns outside on the back patio. Our backyard is block walled in with a locked gate because of our pool, so being viewed by the neighbors is of no great concern. I'm not saying it is stupid to load / unload a self defense weapon in the confines of a home, it is just as easy for me to do it outside. If their ever were an AD on my part, the bullet would contact nothing but atmosphere until it fell back to Earth.

I had an uncle who tried to chamber a friends reloads in his Springfield Sporter in .30-06. They were in the living room. When he went to close the bolt he expected resistance from the rounds not being properly resized. There was none and the heel of his hand slipped off the bolt handle, and his little finger went through the trigger guard and set it off. It only made a neat, little .308 diameter hole right where the wall met the ceiling. On the outside it blew away part of one of the roof trusses where it hung over the eve, and blew plywood sheathing through the shingles. It cost him around $1,500.00 or so in repairs. He had to eat the $1,000.00 deductible. I think the embarrassment was worse.  Bill T.

tombogan03884

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 11:32:07 AM »
North of DC this "Outside" stuff is not practical 6 months out of the year.
Don't know about other states but here a loaded rifle in a car or Off road vehicle is a big NO NO, "Prima Facie" evidence of illegal hunting, so having your Rem 700, (or other deer rifle ) loaded between home and woods is kind of pointless.
Had a Rem 700 in .308, never had any problems.

Solus

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 01:10:20 PM »
I clean all of my guns outside on the back patio. Our backyard is block walled in with a locked gate because of our pool, so being viewed by the neighbors is of no great concern. I'm not saying it is stupid to load / unload a self defense weapon in the confines of a home, it is just as easy for me to do it outside. If their ever were an AD on my part, the bullet would contact nothing but atmosphere until it fell back to Earth.

I had an uncle who tried to chamber a friends reloads in his Springfield Sporter in .30-06. They were in the living room. When he went to close the bolt he expected resistance from the rounds not being properly resized. There was none and the heel of his hand slipped off the bolt handle, and his little finger went through the trigger guard and set it off. It only made a neat, little .308 diameter hole right where the wall met the ceiling. On the outside it blew away part of one of the roof trusses where it hung over the eve, and blew plywood sheathing through the shingles. It cost him around $1,500.00 or so in repairs. He had to eat the $1,000.00 deductible. I think the embarrassment was worse.  Bill T.

Firing into the air might not be the best idea either. 

The bullet will go up until it's velocity is expended then turn around and come back town...theoretically reaching the same speed it started with on it's way up.

Since it won't be spinning, it won't be stabilized so it won't get going as fast, but it won't be floating down either.  It will have enough energy to kill or wound when it hits the ground...where ever that might be.

 
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 01:33:57 PM »
Firing into the air might not be the best idea either.  The bullet will go up until it's velocity is expended then turn around and come back town...theoretically reaching the same speed it started with on it's way up.

If a bullet is fired straight up it will decelerate until it reaches the apogee of it's flight. (The highest altitude). It will then begin it's fall back to Earth until it reaches Terminal Velocity. For a human jumping out of an aircraft that is around 125 MPH. For a bullet it might be slightly faster because of it's smaller profile, and the fact lead is more dense than a human body. But in any case it will be FAR LESS than the muzzle velocity it was launched at. Even if it were a 850 FPS, .45 ACP round.

A good example of this were the Apollo Moon Missions. When they fired their Service Module Engine to break out of Lunar orbit, they accelerated to around 4,000 MPH. Then the Moon's gravity began tugging back at them until they broke free, and the Earth's gravity became a greater force causing them to begin accelerating once again. This continued in the vacuum of space until they reached the Earth's atmosphere and impacted into it's outer fringes at around 400,000 feet at 25,000 MPH, (What is known as Escape Velocity). For lack of a better description you could accurately say the Apollo astronauts quite literally fell to Earth from the Moon.

The Earth's atmosphere then began to slow them down until they reached around 420 MPH at 25,000 feet where the main parachutes were deployed slowing them to around 25 MPH until they splashed down on the surface of the ocean. Bottom line is if the chutes failed they would have only hit the water at around 200 MPH. Fatal for sure, but no where near the 25,000 MPH they began reentry at.

This was proven with Soviet astronaut Vladimir Komarov on April 24, 1964 when his parachute failed to open properly during reentry causing him to hit the ground at an estimated 200 MPH, killing him instantly.  Bill T.

 http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0114.shtml

m25operator

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 07:35:54 PM »
I have seen this happen, usually due some one monkeying with trigger adjustment, can happen on 1911's too.    When ever you get a new gun with a manual safety, make sure it is unloaded, engage the safety, point it in safe direction, pull the trigger hard!! Then still in a safe direction, disengage the safety, many 700's will go bang with and improperly adjusted trigger, if it passes that test, operate the bolt and make sure you slam it home hard, see if the trigger and sear stay engaged, final test, once again, safe direction, on a carpeted floor or a piece of rubber, pound the rifle butt on the ground and see if the sear stays engaged. Most 700's should not be adjusted below 2.5 lbs, especially if you shoot in the summer and hunt in the winter and extreme temperature changed, 2.5 may be 100% at 90 degrees, and unsafe at freezing temps. Do the same safety trigger routine with a 1911, and you might get surprised, safety off, bang.

Another 1911 tip, don't release the slide on an empty magazine, or no magazine, whether it has had trigger work or not, that extra velocity of the slide with no resitance is hard on sear relationships, keep the trigger pulled to engage the disconnector, I do it on loaded guns for the extra safety factor and to protect my trigger jobs, If you have a disconnector problem, it will show up in normal shooting. #2 on any full auto or Semi, have complete control when you chamber a round, always assume when you chamber a round, the firearm will fire, and more than once, I have a friend who put 3 .45acp rounds through his left arm, because he detail stripped his gold cup and got the extra sear piece in wrong, gun in right hand, dropped the slide on a full mag, with one hand and relaxed, it went FA on him, you can just imagine, I have had a 1911 go FA on me, rpm is higher than you think. I was in competition and had full control when it happened.
" The Pact, to defend, if not TO AVENGE '  Tarna the Tarachian.

Sponsor

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #15 on: Today at 01:29:20 PM »

Solus

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 07:39:54 PM »
If a bullet is fired straight up it will decelerate until it reaches the apogee of it's flight. (The highest altitude). It will then begin it's fall back to Earth until it reaches Terminal Velocity. For a human jumping out of an aircraft that is around 125 MPH. For a bullet it might be slightly faster because of it's smaller profile, and the fact lead is more dense than a human body. But in any case it will be FAR LESS than the muzzle velocity it was launched at. Even if it were a 850 FPS, .45 ACP round.


You are correct that it will  not be traveling near it's muzzle velocity but that does not mean it will be traveling slow enough to be harmless.

The best case would be if the bullet is fired perfectly straight up.  In this case the terminal velocity would be somewhere hear 300fps for a 30 cal. 150gr bullet.

That would be around 30 foot pounds of energy.  Enough to dent a metal door,  nick a soft pine board for 1/16 inch or sink 2" in dirt.

About the force of getting whacked with a hammer.  Not fatal every time or even most of the time, but nothing you'd sit still for.

And that is if the bullet went straight up....in which case you would be recovering most of the bullets fired that way.

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
—Patrick Henry

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
— Daniel Webster

oldkat69

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 04:02:54 PM »
 ??? Anybody have any comments on the show?   I too have a 700 but have never had a problem with it.  the moral of the story seemed to be always point youyr fire arm in a SAFE direction;  KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND.  Comments? ???
I used to be open minded but my brain kept falling out.

billt

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 04:19:08 PM »
The moral of the story seemed to be always point your firearm in a SAFE direction;  KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND.  Comments? ???

That is all I have ever lived by for the last 40+ years, and it's been working good so far.  Bill T.

PegLeg45

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 04:40:48 PM »
From Remington:

http://www.remington700.tv/#/home

Quote
Remington Responds to CNBC's "Documentary"
 
To: Remington Vendors, Customers and Industry Partners
 
Date: October 21, 2010
 
Re: CNBC "Documentary"
 
In response to last night's inaccurate CNBC program we launched www.Remington700.tv.
 
CNBC ignored facts and information provided by Remington and instead relied on allegations, misleading anecdotes, and false claims.  Over 5 million Model 700s have been safely and reliably used by millions of shooters, military personnel and law enforcement officers for almost fifty years.  The Model 700 is the most popular bolt-action rifle in the world.

The United States Army recently awarded a new contract to upgrade the M24 Sniper Weapon System which requires the same Model 700 action and the Walker fire control system disparaged by CNBC.  Despite recent media coverage, the Army reaffirmed its trust in the M24, the Model 700, the Walker fire control system, and Remington Arms Company.
 
Visit www.Remington700.tv today and view our initial response to CNBC's story.  New videos and responses will be added daily.  Please encourage others to visit the site.
 
Thank you all for your continued support!
 
"I expect perdition, I always have. I keep this building at my back, and several guns handy, in case perdition arrives in a form that's susceptible to bullets. I expect it will come in the disease form, though. I'm susceptible to diseases, and you can't shoot a damned disease." ~ Judge Roy Bean, Streets of Laredo

For the Patriots of this country, the Constitution is second only to the Bible for most. For those who love this country, but do not share my personal beliefs, it is their Bible. To them nothing comes before the Constitution of these United States of America. For this we are all labeled potential terrorists. ~ Dean Garrison

"When it comes to the enemy, just because they ain't pullin' a trigger, doesn't mean they ain't totin' ammo for those that are."~PegLeg

Timothy

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Re: "REMINGTON Model 700 UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION"
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 05:00:32 PM »
I watched the whole show.  In a nutshell, the evidence is pretty compelling that Remington knew about the problems with their trigger system and safety in the 700 as far back as 1947 when the original designer warned them about it and came up with a 5-1/2 cent solution for it.  Yes, they interviewed the engineer who wasn't afraid to tell the truth, he's been retired for 35 years from Remington.

To correct the tens of thousands of guns that have been reported to them over the last 60 years would be a 100 million dollar fix today so they've (Remington) have decided to bury the information and deny.  Or so it was portrayed by NBC.

In closing, they asked the engineer about the child who died because his mom accidentally shot him while loading the gun and he basically said there wasn't any evidence that she DIDN'T press the trigger.  Anyone who's ever shot a 700 knows how light and crisp the triggers are.

Believe it or don't......it's your choice

 

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