Back Up Power For Going "Off Grid" ?

[billt]

I think I mentioned this a while back. We've been tossing around the idea of getting a back up generator for the house. I'm not interested in one of those permanent back up installations because they are too difficult to move once installed, and are overly expensive. Perhaps if we lived in a remote location I could see it, but not so much for suburban use. I've narrowed it down to this model for the time being for several reasons.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_398826_398826?cm_sp=Upsells-_-Top%20Sellers-_-Product%20Page

1.) It's portable, (With optional wheel kit).

2.) It is capable of running on 3 different fuels. Gasoline, (10 gallon built in tank), L.P., (Propane), and Natural Gas.

3.) It can change fuels on the fly with a simple flick of a switch.

4.) It has electric start.

5.) It has enough power, (10,500 rated watts / 13,000 surge start up watts (gasoline powered), to run a residential A/C system, along with other appliances like a freezer / fridge and a few lights at once.

6.) It's affordable, (Under $5,000.00 by the time you are all finished with shipping costs, running gas lines and providing the necessary electrical hookups and switches.)

7.) It has a smooth power distribution, (under 6 THD), to run power sensitive equipment like computers, radios, T.V.'s, ect.) Many units cannot accomplish this because of too broad of operating ranges that can harm this kind of equipment.

8.) It's small enough not to create an eyesore, and I can keep it neatly under the back patio where it will be protected from thieves, vandals, and the weather.

9.) The whole unit is simple to set up and operate so Mel can run it if the need arises when I'm not home.

The problem with the really cheap Chinese units is durability, or rather lack of it. And the non existence of parts and service. After talking to a couple of places, I've yet to find one that will even be willing to diagnose a Chi-Com unit, let alone repair it. So the things are pretty much disposable if you do buy one, and they are most likely to give it up when you need them the most. Not a sound investment to say the least. This unit has a 2 year parts and service warranty, and a lot of good reviews, so I'm pretty comfortable with it.

We don't have a lot of power failures, but we've had them, and they can last a while. With a large Fridge / Freezer, plus an extra smaller unit, we have a large amount of perishables in them at any given time. Losing everything can happen quickly, and can easily run into the hundreds of dollars if you tally everything up. Not to mention out here in the hot Summer months A/C is a necessity, not a luxury. A house can easily get over 100 degrees quickly with a power loss. Also, without a functioning pool pump you can lose a pool in a matter of 24 hours without any circulation. Green Algae can form in a matter of hours, and can cost hundreds to clean up once it starts growing.

Running a Natural Gas line isn't a big deal because I've already have a tee with a plug installed in the line going into the house. All it would involve is burying a line to the back yard which I want to do anyway this Winter so I can run a grill without screwing with 20 pound Propane tanks. I don't want or need anymore Hernia's! Also, running these things on L.P. or Natural Gas assures a long service life because there is no problem with fuel stagnation, and the engine runs many times cleaner. Having the ability to run on gasoline is nice simply because with all of the tanks full on both vehicles, as well as the generator I'll have over 62 gallons avaliable without having fuel cans laying around everywhere.

Add it all up and it just makes sense to have something that could prevent a catastrophe from happening. I going to wait until Spring before I do anything because we're going to replace our current, builder supplied, energy guzzling, A/C unit then. I want to go with a better, more energy efficient unit, and possibly have more insulation installed as well. The method to my madness is to try and reduce my monthly energy cost to a minimum by the time I retire in 4 years. Having the back up generator in place by then will just be one less thing I have to concern myself with.

I'm not one of these Alex Jones survivalist types, I just like being independent. And to be able to produce the power for my home by another method other than a buried cable supplied to me by someone else just makes for a little better set up with less worry. The portability of the unit allows me to simply unplug it, disconnect the gas line, and roll it away with me should we move for whatever reason. This is far more difficult with the permanently installed types. Anyone else done this?  Bill T.

[MikeBjerum]

Bill -

What is your current cost of electricity?  Take a look at the bill and include all costs except "cost of providing power" if applicable.  Many leave of the power cost adjusters or adders thrown on due to peak needs.  Also, what is your typical monthly usage?

[fightingquaker13]

If you're looking for disaster units (here I'm thinking hurricane, 2-3 weeks of FUBAR), I wouldn't worry about NG lines so much as tanks. I keep 11 propane tanks (9 for the generator, 2 for the grill). They are cheap, don't degrade, are less hazardous than gasoline, and if you switch them off with the weber, aren't a waste of money. We don't have NG, so tanks are the only way to go. Even if we did, I'd still stock some tanks. If service is intterupted, or you need to take your show on the road (say a tornado hits the house and you're camped at a neighbors), you're still good to go. As for brands? Its hard to go wrong with Honda. Just make sure you spend the cash to get an electrician to wire a seperate breaker box for the generator.
Good luck
FQ13

[billt]

Bill -

What is your current cost of electricity?  Take a look at the bill and include all costs except "cost of providing power" if applicable.  Many leave of the power cost adjusters or adders thrown on due to peak needs.  Also, what is your typical monthly usage?

I'll have to look on my next bill for current cost per Kilowatt. As for a monthly bill, during the peak Summer months the worst we've had was in the $250.00 range. In the Winter that is cut to well less than half, but my gas bill increases because I have Natural Gas heat and hot water. My hot water heater is in the garage, so in the Summer it hardly runs, but in the Winter it can get chilly in the garage, especially at night. We recently switched from an electric to a gas clothes dryer, so that helps keep electric costs down as well. Electric dryers can eat up to 4,000 watts on "high".  Bill T.

[Bidah]

Since we live off grid I have got to play with this stuff a bit.    Most of the Chinese stuff is a knockoff of some other maker, usually Honda.  This can go so far as to make the parts the same if you know what you are looking for.  In this case, if the engine did go bad, at worst you would just get another engine, or a whole other unit.

These units will be noisy, very noisy.  The tri-fuel nature will cause it to use more fuel than an otherwise dedicated unit would, but that is the trade off.  Also note that it will get less power using NG than either Gasoline or Propane.  Also, in a power outage you may also experience loss of the NG since that is pumped to your home (probably would not, but could).  Overall, in your situation, it is probably a good buy.

One thing I would recommend is that you use a very good quality synthetic oil as it can make a definite difference in the life span of the engine.  My current gen set has 10,000 hours, which is well over the expected span for that engine, and it is still in very good shape.  I was told that is over 600k miles in a car engine.  Mine runs on Propane, and it does burn a lot cleaner, not to mention the long term storage.

-Bidah

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[billt]

As for brands? Its hard to go wrong with Honda. Just make sure you spend the cash to get an electrician to wire a seperate breaker box for the generator.
Good luck
FQ13

That is what I intend to do. I think they call them "Transfer Switches".

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTEProdinfo?productId=200220974&storeId=6970&catalogId=4006970&langId=-1&cm_sp=Upsells-_-Accessories-_-Product%20Page

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTEProdinfo?productId=200196674&storeId=6970&catalogId=4006970&langId=-1&cm_sp=Upsells-_-Accessories-_-Product%20Page

They basically transfer the "In" from the main line from the street or pole, to the plug in receptacle for the generator. Flip the switch, and you're running off the generator. When power is restored shut down the generator, unplug it, throw the switch back and you're running back off the main line. It's not overly complicated, but I would have an electrician do it. All I know about electricity is you need a "go to" and a "come from". Enough to be dangerous.     Bill T.

[billt]

One thing I would recommend is that you use a very good quality synthetic oil as it can make a definite difference in the life span of the engine.  My current gen set has 10,000 hours, which is well over the expected span for that engine, and it is still in very good shape.  I was told that is over 600k miles in a car engine.  Mine runs on Propane, and it does burn a lot cleaner, not to mention the long term storage.

-Bidah

Bidah,

Do you use Mobil 1 ? If so what weight? It gets very hot here in the Summer months, which is the likely time for a power outage because of the severe Monsoon electrical storms we get in July and August, not to mention power demand is also at it's peak then.   Bill T.

[fightingquaker13]

That is what I intend to do. I think they call them "Transfer Switches".

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTEProdinfo?productId=200220974&storeId=6970&catalogId=4006970&langId=-1&cm_sp=Upsells-_-Accessories-_-Product%20Page

They basically transfer the "In" from the main line from the street or pole, to the plug in receptacle for the generator. Flip the switch, and you're running off the generator. When power is restored shut down the generator, unplug it, throw the switch back and you're running back off the main line. It's not overly complicated, but I would have an electrician do it. All I know about electricity is you need a "go to" and a "come from". Enough to be dangerous.      Bill T.

Actually, it is kind of complicated. The guy was in my house for a couple of hours. He was figuring out what the generator could and couldn't power, checking that it wasn't overloaded, switching circuits on and off etc. The deal is mine will run the lights and the fridge and freezer (Hurricane Hazeritas anyone? ), but not the stove, AC, hot water heater etc.. Still, to get that done, and make sure I had a place to move the microwave and set up an electric skillet near a window etc., etc. took awhile. It was $300 well spent as we tested everything going on and off and it worked well. I wouldn't even think about doing it myself unless you are good at that sort of thing, as if it fails during a storm you are SOL.
FQ13

[billt]

It sounds like you got a bargain for $300.00! For something like that it was money very well spent!  Bill T.

[MikeBjerum]

I'm putting together some items for you that I will pm, but a bit of advice for everyone:

Keep your freezer full with the most perishable on the bottom.  Even if you don't have food in there freeze water.  Also, keep insulating material available to wrap it during outages.  A full freezer with an extra insulating blanket can last a couple days even in the hotest days.