ATF admits many unregistered machine guns allowed by ruling

[PegLeg45]

Posted on Facebook by gun rights activist and columnist David Codrea:

ATF testimony admits many unregistered machine guns allowed by ruling
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/atf-testimony-admits-many-unregistered-machine-guns-allowed-by-ruling

Testimony in the case of US v ONE HISTORIC ARMS MACHINE GUN (link below) revealed there are untold numbers of unregistered machine guns currently owned by Americans that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives not only knows about, but actually created the conditions whereby this situation exists.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/arrested-development-georgia-gun-case

The relevant ATF ruling to consult is 82-8.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-appendix-b.pdf

And the relevant information to take away from that is this:

    The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), defines a machine gun to include any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

And:

    Held: The SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and the SAC carbine are designed to shoot automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. Consequently, the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines are machine guns as defined in Section 5845(b) of the Act.

So that makes them NFA weapons, right?  And ones not registered on the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) are illegal to own?

Well, not exactly:

    With respect to the machine gun classification of the SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines manufactured or assembled before June, 21, 1982. Accordingly, SM10 and SM11A1 pistols and SAC carbines, manufactured or assembled on or after June 21, 1982, will be subject to all the provisions of the National Firearms Act and 27 C.F.R., Part 479.

You got that, right? They’re the same gun.

----snip------

[r_w]

Unintended Consequences.

[tombogan03884]

"Arresting" an item rather than a person is not that uncommon, although it usually happens in cases of Maritime law where a ship is "arrested" rather than any member of the crew.
Deepwater, or Crusader Rabbit will probably know more about it, but the way I understand it it indicates that while the Ship, or in this case the gun part is in violation of some law, the people involved are not necessarily at fault.
In this case the person showed due diligence in submitting the part for ATFE approval or disapproval and only stands to lose the part.
Lets say "Grampa" passes away and while cleaning his attic you find the Thompson he brought back from the war.
Technically you are illegally in possession of an unregistered Machine gun through no fault of your own.

[TAB]

Tom there have been many of those storys floating around in the last 10 years( as the ww2 generation pass on)  where while cleaning out the house, they find something they should not have.

The bad part is, there is really nothing you can do with it.  You can't even say donated to museum.  your only real option is to turn it into a LE agency.

I know when my grandfather passes I'm going to have a hell of a time cleaning out the house.  He was a old school painter, I know alot of whats in the garage.  Alot of the chemicals have not been made in decades.  One, is not even legal to transport on the highway system any more and there is almost a full drum in the garage.  Its very deadly stuff, no legal place to dumb it.  I don't know what I'm going to do with it.  I can't even say open the fill bung and let it evaporate as that would be very deadly to anyone near by.

[tombogan03884]

Tom there have been many of those storys floating around in the last 10 years( as the ww2 generation pass on)  where while cleaning out the house, they find something they should not have.

The bad part is, there is really nothing you can do with it.  You can't even say donated to museum.  your only real option is to turn it into a LE agency.

I know when my grandfather passes I'm going to have a hell of a time cleaning out the house.  He was a old school painter, I know alot of whats in the garage.  Alot of the chemicals have not been made in decades.  One, is not even legal to transport on the highway system any more and there is almost a full drum in the garage.  Its very deadly stuff, no legal place to dumb it.  I don't know what I'm going to do with it.  I can't even say open the fill bung and let it evaporate as that would be very deadly to anyone near by.

I don't recall where I read it, but I believe there is some remedy in that specific case, there was an elderly lady who wound up in that situation when her husband passed and she fought for some type of, amnesty or Grandfather clause in the law.
My first step would be to immediately get in touch with a lawyer who was familiar with gun law.

As for those chemicals, Dude, you live in Ca. just let it evaporate and blame the CIA 

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

I don't recall where I read it, but I believe there is some remedy in that specific case, there was an elderly lady who wound up in that situation when her husband passed and she fought for some type of, amnesty or Grandfather clause in the law.
My first step would be to immediately get in touch with a lawyer who was familiar with gun law.

As for those chemicals, Dude, you live in Ca. just let it evaporate and blame the CIA 

Its federally baned...  its the US DOJ that will not let it on the roads. 

If you find a Machine gun in a deceased realtives house that was a bring back.  you are not going to get in trouble as long as you turn it in.  Thats been long standing.  Now playing with it can.

[bodean87]

I would look at it this way. No one knew my grandfather had it so it dosen't exist as far as anyone will ever know. Good luck with the chem.

ETA: Just thought of something. You might talk to your local fire dept. They may have a hazmat team or be able to find someone to help you with it. We mess with some hazmat but for the big stuff we call a hazmat team. I dont know if they will be able to help you or not.

[fightingquaker13]

I would look at it this way. No one knew my grandfather had it so it dosen't exist as far as anyone will ever know. Good luck with the chem.

ETA: Just thought of something. You might talk to your local fire dept. They may have a hazmat team or be able to find someone to help you with it. We mess with some hazmat but for the big stuff we call a hazmat team. I dont know if they will be able to help you or not.

Agreed. Step one, spend the $500 for a sit down with an environmental lawyer. AFTER granddad dies. Ask him what your liability is (to you or the estate). Then, maybe just call the FD or Sold Waste Authority and say "Granddad died and he has all these chemicals. I'm not sure what they are, but they may be hazardous". If they will bill you, I might look at going with a private service first. It might be cheaper. There have to be companies that do this stuff for a living. Just my .02.
FQ13

[cookie62]

I would look at it this way. No one knew my grandfather had it so it dosen't exist as far as anyone will ever know. Good luck with the chem.

ETA: Just thought of something. You might talk to your local fire dept. They may have a hazmat team or be able to find someone to help you with it. We mess with some hazmat but for the big stuff we call a hazmat team. I dont know if they will be able to help you or not.

I'm on an hazmat team, you will have to call a private contracter to clean it up and dispose of it. A fire dept. hazmat team just miitagates any dangers to public health. VERY costly!

[TAB]

um you guys forget I have a CDL with hazmat and lots of exp with this stuff.  Trust me, trying to transport this stuff, would be extremly expensive.  It still legally can be moved by train, but I have no idea where one would take it to be dumped.

calling in a hazmate team will be 50k min.  I'd not be shocked if it was 100k+  They are also very near to a middle school, which adds another head ache.  They would evacuate the school and the block.  The reality is they both really need assited living right now, if one goes, there is no way the other could take care of themself.  

I've already did the research on this, you are screwed no matter what.  It was banned from consumer sales in 1970 and production in the US in 1973.  in 1992 the UN banned its production and use.  The 1987 montreal protocal stoped its production in all but 3rd world countrys.

 Whats funny is this stuff use to be in every thing, its one of the best degreaser known.  40ish years ago you could buy it at the drug store.  It was used by professionals and hobbyests a like.  there are still a few places in the US that can legally produce very small quantiys  for research only.