What the hell is this world coming to?

[tombogan03884]

lets just say they were armed, had guns all over the place, on thier person, under the counter  etc etc.  Trying to out draw a gun pointed at you head is a losing deal all around.

Ever been robbed at gun point?   I have, twice, I was armed one of those times. Drawing my weapon, would at best ended up with me killing them at worst I'd be dead.

You say that like it is a bad thing, these thugs need to learn that they are not the only ones who can use violence to achieve their objective.
Good people need to be just as willing to use whatever force is needed to get home safely as the scum are willing to use to prevent that.

[tt11758]

You say that like it is a bad thing, these thugs need to learn that they are not the only ones who can use violence to achieve their objective.
Good people need to be just as willing to use whatever force is needed to get home safely as the scum are willing to use to prevent that.

The individual charged with these crimes was, reportedly, "arrested without incident" at a McDonalds several miles down the road from the 2nd crime scene.  Typically, it would seem, "arrested without incident" translates to, "not nearly as bad-ass when he's not the only one with a gun."

[TAB]

Tom trying to out draw a trigger finger is like throwing a forward pass in foot ball.

there are 3 things that can happen, 2 of them are bad.

1 I walk away
2 they walk away
3 niether of us walk away.

[tt11758]

http://www.globegazette.com/news/local/044ff506-f14c-11df-ae80-001cc4c002e0.html


Photo of smiling accused dirtbag at link.  SOB shot the first clerk in the face AFTER she gave him the money and smokes.

[MikeBjerum]

TAB - This kid came in dressed for trouble.  Had there been a gun under the counter they would not of needed to draw.  Just point and blast through the counter front and candy bars.  Any attempt to defend yourself is better than no attempt.  This story reinforces the studies that show you are most likely going to die, so fight back.

Unless I am caught from behind and/or unaware everyone will know I am in trouble.  I am not going to go out quietly, and hopefully if I go I will be taking one of them with me.  If not, he will at least be leaving a brown smelly trail to his hideout.

[Sponsor]

[tt11758]

TAB - This kid came in dressed for trouble.  Had there been a gun under the counter they would not of needed to draw.  Just point and blast through the counter front and candy bars.  Any attempt to defend yourself is better than no attempt.  This story reinforces the studies that show you are most likely going to die, so fight back.

Unless I am caught from behind and/or unaware everyone will know I am in trouble.  I am not going to go out quietly, and hopefully if I go I will be taking one of them with me.  If not, he will at least be leaving a brown smelly trail to his hideout.

I'm with m58 on this one.  The a-hole came through the door wearing a ski mask.  NOT normal attire on a 40 degree evening in Iowa. 

I am not going to go out quietly, and hopefully if I go I will be taking one of them with me.

I'll go one further.  In the course of such an interaction I MIGHT get killed with my own weapon.  I can assure you, however, that the SOB will have to use it to beat me to death, cuz it'll be empty by the time he gets ahold of it.

[tombogan03884]

Tom trying to out draw a trigger finger is like throwing a forward pass in foot ball.

there are 3 things that can happen, 2 of them are bad.

1 I walk away
2 they walk away
3 niether of us walk away.

TAB, You have valid points here that would reduce it to an argument over tactics that belong in other threads.
So I'll just leave it at, drawing against the "drop" is doable, but probably not by an untrained  50ish woman store clerk.

[tt11758]

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2010/11/16/2-convenience-store-clerks-dead-in-iowa-shootings-2/

Algona, Ia. — The teen accused of shooting and killing two convenience store clerks was arraigned this afternoon.

Michael Richard Swanson, 17, smiled as he walked across the street from the county jail to the courthouse in a black and white striped prison uniform, handcuffs and leg shackles.

The judge ordered a $1 million, cash-only bail. Swanson’s next appearance will be Nov. 29 at 1:30 p.m. He was appointed a public defender from Fort Dodge.

When a reporter asked why he came to Iowa, Swanson shook his head as he laughed and smiled.

“I don’t know,” he said.

Another reporter asked, “What’s so funny, you’re smiling?”

“Y’all are funny,” Swanson responded.

Swanson is accused of shooting to death two convenience store clerks  in separate robberies in northern Iowa Monday night.

Swanson told police he shot the women intentionally so that they could not call police or later identify him, according to an affidavit filed in Kossuth and Humboldt counties.

This just pisses me off.

[Solus]

Tom trying to out draw a trigger finger is like throwing a forward pass in foot ball.

there are 3 things that can happen, 2 of them are bad.

1 I walk away
2 they walk away
3 niether of us walk away.

The ladies in these crimes had no gun so they only had a chance on number 2.

Had they been armed, they would  have had chances at 1 and 3 also....and if the lady in the first store had gotten anything other than number 2, the Lady in the second store would have gone home to her family that night.  Might not have done the first lady any practical good, but it would have saved a life and the anguish of the second ladies family.

Again, TAB, fight, don't bend over and take it.

[fightingquaker13]

Thing is is this. Having a gun for SD is just that. Defense. The attacker has the iniative. Their gun is drawn, your's isn't. Do you give the money, or roll the dice? Its an honest question, and its your life if you guess wrong. Give them what they want and hope thet go away, or draw to a drawn gun? What's "rational" is what your gut tells you. Either way, its 50-50 at best. Only one of you is going home. Its why I sold my Bond and why I don't own a 1911 and love my Glock. No safety, no cocking, point and click. Devil take the hindmost. I have no advice because those clerks should have had the right to make the call. Pisses me off that they didn't, but I can't say it would have changed things if they did. I'm not arguing, just wondering. Thoughts?
FQ13