What the hell is this world coming to?

[MikeBjerum]

My comment of a gun under the counter is not fictitious.  It is very common in stores that plan to protect.  Defense is possible.  I can get you a first hand account of a bat to a robber that ended an episode.  However, there are also many other accounts of similar cases with varying weapons that have ended in varying ways.

Bottom line is that most of these situations end with violence.  Everyone needs to decide how they want to bet, but I'd hate to fold myself.

[fightingquaker13]

My comment of a gun under the counter is not fictitious.  It is very common in stores that plan to protect.  Defense is possible.  I can get you a first hand account of a bat to a robber that ended an episode.  However, there are also many other accounts of similar cases with varying weapons that have ended in varying ways.

Bottom line is that most of these situations end with violence.  Everyone needs to decide how they want to bet, but I'd hate to fold myself.

Well said. I'll roll the dce if its my lfe. The bosses' isurance company's money? The boss loses. Sad thing is, too many robbers don't get that fine, but crucial distinction and just shoot folks. They just shoot. Way I figure it, it would have been a shame to spend $550 on a Glock and not get it dirty if I'm dead anyway.
FQ13 who ain't dyin' for the money, just to save his own ass and those around him.

[tombogan03884]

Thing is, you don't know until the BG is gone, will he just take the money, or like this POS decide to "leave no witnesses".
That happens to often to take the chance when you have the advantage of surprise.
These thugs think showing a gun gives them the ultimate power, the absolute last thing they expect is for you to pull your own and shoot them.
With some of the whack jobs on the streets today, are you willing to bet your life they will just take the money and leave ?

[fightingquaker13]

And therein lies the rub. If its just the money? Take it. If I think I'm going to die because you listened to one too many rap songs? Well, we'll flip for it. And damned if I have a right answer.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

No shrug zone

[Sponsor]

[MikeBjerum]

The brazen teen was well known by police in his hometown for causing trouble. His criminal record, stretching back to when he was 13, is peppered with thefts, weapons allegations and assaults. But nothing in it would seem to foreshadow Monday's cold-blooded crimes.

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/108652399.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUvckD8EQDUX

Four year history of thefts and assaults (that is violent I believe) and allegations of weapons (not sure what that means), and there was no reason to think this clown would go whacko at some point  

And the gun control whack jobs wonder why we scream "enforce the laws you already have!"

Final paragraphs from the news story:

Following his conviction, a July order for placement recommended that Swanson serve detention away from home. The explanation was in a series of statements marked by checked boxes:

"Prior programming treatment and consequences in the home failed to return the child to law-abiding behavior," said one entry.

"There are no services available at this time that would allow the child to safely remain at home," said another.

This box also was checked:

"The child's behavior places him/her and others at risk for harm."

Insert Homer Simpson quote here 

[MikeBjerum]

And therein lies the rub. If its just the money? Take it. If I think I'm going to die because you listened to one too many rap songs? Well, we'll flip for it. And damned if I have a right answer.
FQ13

FQ - Did you just get whiplash spinning your head around trying to figure out what that noise was?  In case you missed it, that sound was my point flying past way over your head!

It ain't about the money or property.  It is about these jerks are most likely going to do harm to my person.  I don't know how I will react in each and every situation, but I hope I am never found dead without trying to defend myself.  I will surely attempt to hand over the cash, but what I deliver next and how is to be determined by the situation and my personal reaction to it.

My hopes, which you seem to have missed, is that I will "subdue" the A**hole!  Idea being that I don't plan for him to walk out unscathed while I lie in a pool of blood.

[fightingquaker13]

Didn't think we were having an an argument. I was kind of trying to agree with you in my post. Just stating my own thoughts along the way. Where guys like us get into trouble with guys like them is that we are rational people. We know that no amount of money we may be holding is worth dying over. We'll give it up. Its just stuff. Stuff can be replaced. Problem is that they don't seem to get that by killing over it, they're throwing their own lives away as well. They're going to get caught eventually, and when they're looking at 25 to life, how many times more than what they stole would they pay to get out of prison? They just don't see  that though. Force is where the rational deal with the irrational. Its just harder for us because we can see the consequences.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

This relates to why we lost Vietnam, and why we will lose in Afghanistan. Western society is not prepared to beat a foe worse than what that foe is prepared to with stand. We lack the will to be the Romans at Masada, and if needed, kill every living thing that shows the least resistance. The thugs, and primitives however are quite willing, some even eager to play the role of the Jews and die to the last soul.

[usmcdadx2]

I'm in M58's camp. Once a weapon (any weapon) comes into play you are in a life or death situation. I refuse to leave the decision do I live or die solely to the discretion of the scumbag with the weapon. My personal default options are when if possible distract and escape. If that isn't possible then distract, attack and then if possible escape. Only had to do this once in my life against a jerk with a knife when I was in my early 20’s and didn’t really know anything and I left him on the ground holding what I hope was a broken ankle as I ran away. Since then I have made it a point to be aware of what is going on around me so that I have a chance to avoid or react before I’m in such a situation. If I can’t avoid it then I’ll chose to “go not gently”.