Is the 4th Amendment History?

[jp1]

A man sleeping in his bedroom gets raided by police with no warrant, they find nothing, and he takes it to the courts, only to have it thrown out by the Federal 3rd circuit. They say it was unclear, the 4th Amendment seems pretty clear to me; hell a grade school kid can understand it.

Right now in Philadelphia the police are fully searching people on the street, just because of how they look or how they act. If you are standing on the corner with your hands in your pockets they will put you up against the wall and feel you up. If they continue to get away with it how long before it spreads to other cities and towns?

And of course we all know about the TSA and the scanners and body searches, it still amazes be how many are willing to give up their freedom for false security! What a bunch of uneducated people some have become! Now there is talk of doing it at train and bus stations, how long before all Government buildings will have them, never mind the 500 x-ray vans the FBI purchased that do the same thing as the body scanners, but to your home instead.

And then there is the recording of cell phone calls and email, I know compared to the above its small potato’s but it still counts.

Osama has to be laughing his ass off as he watches the idiots in control remove our freedom and turn us into a police state!

[TAB]

The only amendment that has taken more of a beating is the 10th...

[tombogan03884]

The thing about communications privacy is that SCOTUS has ruled , correctly I think, that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy when you broadcast blindly into the airwaves or internet, it is a precedent that was set in the early days of car phones when they would often overpower CB radio's but seems to still be applied today.
As to Postal mail the courts have held that it is sacrosanct in order to protect postal workers and deter thefts, I really don't see any effective reason to expect privacy for some thing you leave in a tin box on the side of the road.
Where the 4th Amendment Should be all powerful is, as in your example, inside your home, "Secure in your person, property and papers" but that has been intentionally infringed, eroded and ignored based on precedents set in that raving success the "War on Drugs".
Do you know that if a "Drug raid" is conducted on your home all valuables, cash, cars, etc. can be seized under forfeiture laws now on the books ?
Do you realize there is no requirement to return them if you are found not guilty ?
In most cases it would be impossible anyway as they are auctioned, or otherwise disposed of long before you come to trial.
That is what several billion dollars a year is buying you, meanwhile the street price of cocaine and heroin continue to drop due to high supply.
But "It's for the children".
Bullshit.

[jp1]

When I consider the Constitution, I really don’t consider what the politically stacked courts have ruled on. So much of it is a bunch of B.S. and spin to get big oppressive Government what they want. One of the things we may consider is changing that power hungry politicians get to appoint judges that have the same big Government control view to decide our fate. But that is a discussion for another time.

I believe this is how it should be:

1)   I believe that if I send an email to a person, that person should be the only person to read it, and no Government agency should be able to read it or keep it.

2)   I concede that the public airwaves are up for grabs, and anything transmitted is public.

3)   Even postal mail should be private, if I send a letter to a person; it should be a crime if anyone including the Government reads it.

4)   If I am in on any public street or any public place, or traveling. I should not be thrown against a wall and searched just because of the way I look or in the name of security.

5)   And sure as hell no Government official should be allowed to search my home without proper procedure, even though with the stacked courts it is not on the side of the people

Most people don’t get it, and is where a lot of conservatives falter. Things like the war on drugs and terrorism are used as a tool to take away our rights with misguided public support, and a fake attempt to solve the problem for public consumption. While the truth is those in power don’t care about solving the problem, their main objective is power and control! 

[tombogan03884]

When I consider the Constitution, I really don’t consider what the politically stacked courts have ruled on. So much of it is a bunch of B.S. and spin to get big oppressive Government what they want. One of the things we may consider is changing that power hungry politicians get to appoint judges that have the same big Government control view to decide our fate. But that is a discussion for another time.

I believe this is how it should be:

1)   I believe that if I send an email to a person, that person should be the only person to read it, and no Government agency should be able to read it or keep it.
This is a naive expectation, for starters, The NSA collects all electronic signals emanating from the entire planet, secondly the technology is available for any one with the skills to enter your system and read everything you have ever typed on that system, not just one specific computer. Maybe it should work the way you wish, it doesn't, deal with it.
2)   I concede that the public airwaves are up for grabs, and anything transmitted is public.

3)   Even postal mail should be private, if I send a letter to a person; it should be a crime if anyone including the Government reads it.

4)   If I am in on any public street or any public place, or traveling. I should not be thrown against a wall and searched just because of the way I look or in the name of security.
That thinking is why we now have TSA agents feeling up every one except muslims.
5)   And sure as hell no Government official should be allowed to search my home without proper procedure, even though with the stacked courts it is not on the side of the people
This is what you get for the billions spent every year on the useless war on drugs, it is not about crime, it is not about drugs, it is simply a method to slowly f*ck you and get you to say thank you afterward.
Most people don’t get it, and is where a lot of conservatives falter. Things like the war on drugs and terrorism are used as a tool to take away our rights with misguided public support, and a fake attempt to solve the problem for public consumption. While the truth is those in power don’t care about solving the problem, their main objective is power and control!  
Exactly !

The "deal with it" comment was not sarcasm if I meant it that way I would have said "get over it". There are ways to add security to needed communications, encryption programs are available for general use, there is even a "freeware" one that is supposed to be extremely effective because as "Freeware" it never went through a commercial approval process which is where commercial versions have the NSA back door installed that allows them to read your mail. No system is unbreakable, if they want to know what YOU are saying it takes about 10 minutes to decrypt National code systems. The NSA has the most powerful computers on earth at their disposal, but it keeps out the riff raff.
The most effective method of all is to limit communications to face to face verbal exchanges in a windowless room while you are both naked, nothing else is guaranteed.

You are wrong about the public streets thing, in fact, that is exactly what we should be doing to any Muslim or Arab, not feeling up 4 year olds and 70 year old Scandinavian Nuns. The 4th A does specify "In your home" the Constitution is not, as the socialists would have you believe, a suicide pact, out side the home you are taking your own chances.

You want personal privacy ? End the war on drugs and roll back the KGB methods that have been implemented under cover of it.
These dumb azzes like FQ complain about the "Patriot Act"? It did nothing more than admit to things that interested people have known the Govt has been doing since the 70's.

[Sponsor]

[mortdooley]

 The way I remember these invasions of our rights we thought they were good ideas until they were used against us. Taking the high dollar car, boat or plane of a drug kingpin and using it or the money from its sale to fight the war on drugs sounded like a great idea. The power it gave law enforcement to abuse the public shows just how bad a good idea can be twisted, sometimes the solution is worse then the problem. I doubt the Patriot Act has ever made me safer but it led to the TSA making me draw a line I will not cross, so no more commercial flights. My privacy is more important to me then that "song and dance act"  performed at the airports. All of us with concealed carry  should be able to present it to bypass security, they should ask two questions. Are you armed and what caliber mag-safe ammo do you need during your flight?










 

[fightingquaker13]

Pretty much spot on Mort. Almost never in our history has government "taken" our liberties away. We have given them freely, from the Alien and Sedition Act, to the Comstock laws, to prohibition, the Red Scares and the Drug War and now the War on Terror. Scare people enough, or outrage them enough, and they will agree to anything. Trouble is, once you sober up and realize what you've done, its damned hard, if not impoosible to fix it. The American people, when they are pissed and scared have the self control of Rush Limbaugh in a Mexican pharmacy or Tiger Woods in a Vegas strip club. You'd think we'd have learned by now.
FQ13

[Ichiban]

The American people, when they are pissed and scared have the self control of Rush Limbaugh in a Mexican pharmacy or Tiger Woods in a Vegas strip club. You'd think we'd have learned by now.
FQ13

You know, I wasn't going to do this but sometime ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.

I am no fan of Rush Limbaugh but I do get tired of people bashing him for his drug problem.  It is not like he was using for recreational purposes ala Lindsay Lohan or Robert Downey Jr.  They were originally prescribed for back problems and they took over his life.  Just like they did with Brett Favre.  Prescription pain killers are very insidious in their addiction and they have a rather high addiction rate.  People who are addict will do whatever it takes to keep that addiction fed and a lot of doctors don't do enough to prevent it.  Addiction to prescription pain killers is particularly high with senior citizens.

If you want to bash him for being such a hypocrite about it or for being such a fat-ass that it caused his back problems in the first place, you'll get no objection from me.  Just show a little sympathy for people that started down the addiction path for legitimate reasons.

Sorry about that - guess I've just seen that topic a little to closely in real life.
 

[fightingquaker13]

Understood and agreed. It was just a joke, no agenda. I really do respect Rush for getting clean. Why I knock him is that he's never come out against the drug war. Guys just like him, only without the money, go to jail every day for policies he supported. He had the courage to come clean about his problem. That's admirable. He doesn't have the courage to call for people in the same boat as him to have the same options of probation and a good detox that he did. That's what bothers me.
FQ13

[Ichiban]

At one point Rush was really harping about how the white-collar drug users (white boys and their powdered cocaine) should be treated the same as the blue collar users (blacks and their crack cocaine).  That all kind of dried up when his own problems surfaced.  Proving once again ...