My New Years Resolution, Thoughts And Advice Wanted.

[twyacht]

After a lengthy conversation with m25, (aka,... go to guy for gun questions),  I have decided not to get a .308 (yet),...and build my own AR 5.56/.223 platform rifle for 2011.

Here's kinda what I want to achieve:

A billet solid lower, SI Defense, LaRue Tactical, type. I've seen them stripped and/or complete for a reasonable price. Although, a Stag, or Rock River Arms, DPMS,  lower would do, if a better barrel or upper is an option.

2 Stage trigger, is (under advice from wiser folks than me,) would be preferred.

Cheaper Than Dirt has Colt complete uppers at $499.00...HBAR type.  16" barrel.  Thoughts?

Would like a SOPMOD, rear stock.

BIG QUESTION:

Barrel length.

I already have a Sig 556, 16" cold forged barrel, with optics and quick detach bipod, and the damn thing will punch holes all day at 150 yds, and uses standard AR magazines. It is a fantastic rifle.

However, would a longer barrel be practical? Or not worth the cost or mobility?

I am more favorable to NOT buy different mags and ammo, for a .308, and just have two rifles utilize the same mags. (For now),....

This build will never have a bipod, more as a bedside or SHTF sling worthy, bug out, light em' up rifle.  Light, portable, mobile and reliable.

Is an 18" worth it? I seem to think not, but your advice is requested; that and fwd. stocks.

Christmas Party/ Bonus is coming this week, and is a good place to start. Any other advice on uppers? Colt's work, but I cannot afford to build a $2000 rifle, on a somewhat limited budget.  Otherwise, I'd just go get one.

 I'd just get a damn Barrett.

Thank you. Any and all advice is very much appreciated.

Happy New Year!!!

[tombogan03884]

What about a better cartridge ? 6.8 ?  7.62X39 ?

[bafsu92]

I have at least 5 AR platform rifles at any given time and none are over 16". I prefer the mobility of the shorter barrel, I have a couple 14.5" light taper barrels with midlength gas systems and they are more accurate than I am out to 200 yards which is more than sufficient in Florida where most shots are within 50 yards. I've decided through trial and error that you get what you pay for in AR components and have become, I hate to admit a bit of a brand whore. I'm currently in the process of getting rid of all my "lesser brand" products and upgrading. My basic, knock around entry level rifles are Armalite's which are only a little more than Rock River, DPMS and similar when you buy uppers or lowers. I've built enough to feel an extra $40-$50 for the upper and lower is worth it, I've had at least 3 Rock River lowers over teh last year that had the trigger pin holes drilled crooked and similar issues.

I just bought a a matched Noveske Upper and Lower, factory matched and fitted for $285, well worth the money. A real good deal right now for a lower is on AR15.com - They're running a special run POF billet lower for $150 shipped until they're gone. I plan on picking up one or two of these myself. If you want a deal on a barrel Palmetto State Armory has 16" Daniel Defense chrome lined 1-7 twist barrels for right around $165. They also have very good deals on lower parts kits and their receivers, both upper and lower, are a very good product for the money. Don't scrimp on your rail. I really like LaRue or Troy for rails and I've tried them all.

 If you want a really solid setup pick up the POF billet lower for $150 and go with a VLTOR VIS monolithic upper (I'd go rifle length with a Troy lo-pro gas block $40). If you look around you can find one for right at $600, maybe a bit less. So you're at $790 there, add the DD barrel and your at $955. Add a PSA MOE lower parts kit and you've got a nice grip and magpul trigger guard  for $55 - $1010. Now get the PWS receiver extension, it costs about 3 times what a normal, quality buffer tube costs ($135) but is worth it. So now you're at $1045. Go with the stock of your choice say a CTR for $90 or a nice VLTOR for $75 so you're at $11120-$11135. All you need now are sights (I'd go Troy Ind. say $170 for a set) so $1205 and all you need is mags and an optic of your choice and sling. The PWS extension has single point mounts built in if you want to go that route, the VIS has qd sling points built in so you have lots of options. You could always go piston for a couple hundred more but since you already have a Sig 556 I wouldn't bother. You do this build and you've got a rifle for $1200 that you'd spend at least $1800 or more to get a comparable factory setup. Do yourself a favor and put an extra $100 in the trigger. PSA has lower parts kits with Geiselle's in them and you can't get better than that. My optic of choice for a home defense / CQB rifle is a Trijicon Reflex, I like the triangle reticle myself but that's me. No batteries, no on and off switches, it always works and Trijicon has the best service and support of all the optics companies in my opinion.

If you don't want to build a rifle I'd just buy the PWS mark 114. This is, in my opinion the very best value on the market. A billet, piston rifle for $1549 suggested retail. You couldn't buy the components and build this for that price. In case you were interested my current personal build, a work in progress since it's going as I can fund it is a Mega Machine factory matched billet upper and lower with a still to come 13.7" 6.5 Grendel barrel under a 13.2" LaRue rail with a pinned and welded Noveske Flaming pig for an OAL of 16.1". I decided on this rather than doing a .308 build myself now that 6.5 ammo prices have dropped so much. I like staying in a 5.56 sized rifle with a little more boom. The .308 platform AR's just feel to bulky to me. I have the lower built out with a VLTOR IMOD clubfoot and Ergo grip. I just ordered the rail Friday so I need to get the barrel next.

[twyacht]

basfu, you are GTG, #2.    Thank you for the time to post all that info, it is greatly appreciated. If you get a PM from me, with a silly question, I hope you don't mind.

I have considered another caliber, love the ballistics of the 6.8, however, at this time, having two 5.56/.223's, gives me a "back up"
for all the 5.56 mags and ammo, should something happen to one of them.

One day, I would love a 6.8 upper and that is certainly on the list.

Seeing complete Stag lowers, with 2 stage trigger in the $250-$300 range, a Colt upper for $500 seems like a reliable easy match up.

If I go that route, I can experiment with barrel, and other tweaks, and have a cost effective AR.

However, I see your point of paying 50-75 bucks more for a POF, LaRue, SI Defense, billet lower, and getting what you pay for regarding components.

Like Chris Matthews, I think I'm getting a "tingle",.... Seriously,... thank you. Hopefully, the bonus will be what it should be, as last year's was "light"...

[bafsu92]

No problem on the info and feel free to message me any time, I love talking guns. I agree with wanting at least 2 rifles with the same magazine/caliber. That's actually why I got rid of the 6.8 I had a while back. My wife was just beginning to get into shooting rifles and my son was catching the bug as well. I was afraid that I might be out of town and they would go to grab a rifle in a stress/home defense scenario and grab the wrong magazine/rifle. I decided at the time to standardize.

I've built rifles that are pretty much my wife and son's personal units now, both pretty basic, Armalite lowers and uppers with 14.5" barrels a crisp 5# single stage tactical trigger and mid-length gas system. They both have all Magpul furniture with a plain Magpul handguard that has a 2" rail section at 2 o'clock forward for a small tactical light. Open sights on both, FSB front with a fixed Daniel Defense rear. My wife chose Foliage and my son wanted the basic black. These are great for their needs and done for under $800 ea. As soon as they are competent enough with the iron sights they'll get Trijicon reflex's as well. I've got either GI contract spec mags or black P-Mags with general range ammo for everyone. All my special purpose ammo is in FDE P-Mags that I've further coded out with different colored ranger plates so I have a quick visual on what ammo is loaded in them.

All my 5.56 rifles are in FDE or LDE so we can instantly identify them when getting in the safe. When I finish the 6.5 Grendel build (I like the ballistics of the 6.5 much better than the 6.8 and now the ammo is becoming more prevalent and cheaper. I personally think the 6.5 will win out if it becomes a VHS / BETA type of battle but more likely both will do ok) I plan to do it in OD green. I'm going to Cerakote all the magazines for it in OD as well. This will be the only OD rifle in the safe and I feel like they've got enough experience now that this will suffice for identification issues. To some people this all might seem a little anal but for safety and security purposes I feel like you can never be too organized or prepared.

[Sponsor]

[kmitch200]

Seeing complete Stag lowers, with 2 stage trigger in the $250-$300 range, a Colt upper for $500 seems like a reliable easy match up.

If I go that route, I can experiment with barrel, and other tweaks, and have a cost effective AR.

I have a Colt HBAR 20".
It doesn't do anything that my S&W (Stag) 16" won't do except give a little more velocity over the chrono. The coyotes won't ever know the difference.
You don't HAVE to have that little horsey on it for it to do what you want - not worth any more money IMHO if you have a choice of a less expensive upper.

[bafsu92]

I have a Colt HBAR 20".
It doesn't do anything that my S&W (Stag) 16" won't do except give a little more velocity over the chrono. The coyotes won't ever know the difference.
You don't HAVE to have that little horsey on it for it to do what you want - not worth any more money IMHO if you have a choice of a less expensive upper.

I agree to a point, if you're going with a forged upper as long as the quality is good it shouldn't matter. Unfortunately even though all the forged uppers out there come out of 1 of about 5 forges now most are still finished by a final manufacturer who may or may not be the name on the side. LAR for example finishes receivers from at least 3 forges for at least 5 "manufacturers". Unfortunately some of these operations have better equipment and quality control than others. I've seen Armalite receivers marked 2nds that are better finished and more in spec than 1st run Rock River. If you want the best chance to get a perfectly finished and in spec receiver then go with a billet model from POF, PWS or Mega. Sure they have a chance of an issue just like anyone does but your chances are much less and all 3 stand behind their stuff. Sun Devil is good for "budget billet" and they do a lot of stuff for other brands as well. If you price out say a POF and take into consideration the extras included, like integral winter trigger guard and ambi-mag / bolt catches on some models you really aren't spending that much more and actually in some cases if you plan to buy these upgrades anyway you may end up spending less.

There's just a lot less margin for error when you CNC a solid billet than to try to take a forging or even worse a casting and then machine it.

[kilopaparomeo]

Ever since my kids started "stealing" my ARs whenever we go to the range , I decided I should build my own and spec it exactly like I wanted.

I acquired parts over several months and assembled to make my "ultimate" AR.  I used parts that I trusted (not necessarily top of the line but ones I had good luck with in the past)



Here's what I put together:

• DPMS 5.56 lower receiver
• YHM T-marked upper receiver
• Sabre Defense BCG
• RRA 2-stage NM trigger
• Magpul enhanced triggerguard
• VLTOR eMod stock
• Ergo grip
• Bravo Company 18" SS SPR barrel with Rifle Length Gas System -- had Steve at ADCO turn it down to Gov't profile
• YHM FF rifle length smooth forearm
• Vortex FH
• YHM flip up front sight - gas block
• Brownells HK-style rotary diopter BUIS
• EoTech 511

I wanted an 18" barrel to give the little 5.56 bullet every chance to keep its velocity so it could do its work, but even more importantly I wanted the long sight radius AND RELIBILITY that a rifle length gas system could give.  Plus I already had "compact" 16" rifles...especially my bullpups.  In addition, but I also wanted a lightweight rifle.  No one seems to make a pencil thin 18" barrel.  So I had ADCO turn this one down (good price...only $65 for the work)

Here's a picture of the barrel through the handguard...you can see compared the the chamber portion to the left that the barrel is significantly thinner.  In fact, the rifle weighs only 6.5 lbs unloaded.  It is actually slightly lighter than my M4-gery.  My similarly configured 6.8 SPC rifle with the full SPR barrel weighs a full pound more.



If I had to do it over again, I think I would replace the RRA 2-stage (has been reported to not be as durable as a "combat" trigger...whatever that means) with a Gisselle.  Brownells has their 2-stage for around $175.

My experience...good for me but not necessarily for everyone.

[twyacht]

Thanks kpr,, I like the VLTOR setup, still on the fence on barrel length. 16-18 . I am going to prefer iron sights, and they will go on first. Down the road, perhaps a low profile red dot,...but not really interested in optics right now.

Heard good things about the YHM uppers also...I think it was you, kpr, that had a great description of chrome-moly; chrome lined barrels.

Heard the pros and cons. My Sig is a cold forged barrel, and I would love another "refresher" from anyone regarding chrome lined barrels, vs. chrome moly barrels. 1:7, vs 1:9 twist rates for .223/5.56... in a 16-18" platform.

[Ichiban]

FWIW http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

It's been awhile since I read it but I think it was worth while.  YMMV