C&R Eligiable Rifles and Pistols

[alfsauve]

As we're talking about BATF investigating multiple gun sales, and about Mosin Nagant Rifles and Nagant Pistols....well I though I'd go ahead and apply for my C&R.  I might as well, they got my number anyway.

So I'm looking over the list of C&R on the BATF web site as to what qualifies and what can be shipped directly to me.

Mosin Nagant Rifles
The Nagant Pistol that BillT was talking about.

What's interesting is how the manufacturers got BATF to put a lot of "collectibles" on the list.  I mean these are guns that people are going to pay big bucks for many aren't likely to be fired.

There's the really historical single C&R's like:

Colt, Match Target Woodsman Semiautomatic Pistol, cal. .22LR., S/N 128866S, owned by Ernest
Hemingway.

There are a lot of special edition/commemorative  but even the first couple of a new model like my S&W 624.  The first 25 made where specially stamped "1985 nn" where nn is 1-25.   

There are the "mistakes"  "oppsies" like  Colt 1911 MKIV 1970s that were mis-stamped with both "government" and "commander" markings.

The S&W Model 66 is even on the list.....welll some version of it are.   The BATF version whose s/n start with "BATF" and have a small replica badge engraved on the side plate.   Also the Navy Investigative Service (now NCIS) models. 

If you want to know what "collectable" just look at this list.   Just an interesting list.
I haven't waded through the updates yet.  http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/



Oh all 500 Singer 1911 .45ACPs are C&R as well.  Good luck on finding one of those.

[Pecos Bill]

I think you'll find most of the guns that are shown in that way gain most of their value because of their association with an historical event, person, or some such. That's spelled out in the regs for the collectors  license.

Pecos who didn't explain that very well.

[tombogan03884]

I believe that any firearm more than 50 years old qualifies. But it has to be "The gun it's self" not something they have been making for 50 years.

[alfsauve]

Age is a criteria but it's not a given.  I don't think the BATF will add a MODERN weapon to C&R just because it passed a certain age.  It's got to have some Curious, collectible or Relic value.
 
For example all the Singer made 1911 45ACPs are C&R but I doubt you'll  see generic 1911's (Colt, Remington, Ithaca) from the same period on the list.   Also missing are original 1911s made by North American Arms.  There were only 105 made.  Probably means very few have survived are held so privately that no one has asked for C&R designation.

I've listed the criteria below.   Any one of which MAY qualify.  Criteria 2 & 3 carry a lot more weight than age.


1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof;
2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits
firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are
novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of
qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value
and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector’s items, or that the value of like
firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.   

[CJS3]

Age is a criteria but it's not a given.  I don't think the BATF will add a MODERN weapon to C&R just because it passed a certain age.  It's got to have some Curious, collectible or Relic value.

How do you think the CZ-82 made the list? I'm not complaining, mind you, but it does seem strange that the military/police (9x18) variant of a pistol still listed on the CZ catalog made it to the C&R list.

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-83/

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Alf, I'm getting this 2nd hand, but it comes from a fairly reliable guy,
What he told me was that while many dealers are reluctant to do it, If the gun it's self is over 50 years old then it can be shipped to you the same as any other C&R. For example, it would not apply to a brand new model 700, but it would to one manufactured in 1959 or earlier.
I have not checked myself, but he said he verified this at the ATF website.
I'll ask him about it tonight at work and try to post more details.

CJ, I think it's on the list because the Communist era forces used it, which gives it a historical value as a Cold War relic.

[CJS3]

It has to be on the ATF C&R list and you have to have a C&R license, before it can be shipped or before you can recieve it. The only way around that is if it's classified as an antique (pre 1895) or if it is not classified as a firearm (muzzle loader, air gun).

[alfsauve]

........
What he told me was that while many dealers are reluctant to do it, If the gun it's self is over 50 years old then it can be shipped to you the same as any other C&R. For example, it would not apply to a brand new model 700, but it would to one manufactured in 1959 or earlier.

MODIFIED

DISREGARD FIRST VERSION OF THIS POST

I didn't read far enough.

Yes, if it's over 50 years old AND in original configuration.  Doesn't have to be listed.

From ATF Web site: http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age.

[david86440]

My C&R expired in Oct and I didn't renew it as I need to slow down on my purchases.

I think I'm still going through withdrawal. Does anyone have a cure?

[fightingquaker13]

My C&R expired in Oct and I didn't renew it as I need to slow down on my purchases.

I think I'm still going through withdrawal. Does anyone have a cure?

Its like the old addiction cures from the turn of the century. They had this great stuff to cure drug dependency, it was only 50% opium. Worked like a charm. I'd reccomend getting off the moisin jag by trying some 8mm mausers. Think of it as the niccorette of firearms.
FQ13