CLIPS KILL - ( I know this will be a shock to Haz)

[Dakotaranger]

My $.02  Having a ccw means nothing.  

Having one does not make you a shooter, great at SD, tactically mind ful  etc etc


Infact I'd say most of the people that I've met over the years(remember I traveld all over the us working in construction) that had a ccw are NOT prepared.  Many have had no idea what would happen if they need to use the gun or even when it is or is not a good idea to draw it.

There are those that flat out would not use it,( but still have it    ) to those that are "gung hoe"  ( you know stop a bank robbery when no shots have been fired)

So in my mind all that some one saying they have a ccw means is they filled out some paper work and paid a fee.

Tab, I have to disaggree to a point.  Someone who has a CCW (or in States with Constitutional carry) are more apt to act if for no other reason they have made the decision they aren't going to be sheep.  While I'm sure those who jumped this guy had worked through at least one or more scenerios in their mind they are already ahead of the reaction curve, but that's my plug nickle

ps never said I could spell

[TAB]

Thats exactly my point.  they are more likly to act.


Often the best thing to do is NOT act.

lets just play the what if game.

you stop in the local 711, you go to the back to pick up what ever.  while your in the back, 2 guys walk in and point a gun at the clerk and say "give me all the money"  They have not seen you.

what do you do?


well, I've heard mor then a few ccw say they would draw and shoot them.  Is that the correct thing to do?  is that even the legal thing to do in your state?  I think you understand where I'm going with this.  its not the hardware its the software.


Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility, yet IME, most people that have a CCW have no idea what that responsibility is.

[tombogan03884]

We have had this debate before about intervening in a bank robbery. If they shoot the clerk, or another customer they're going down, otherwise, that's what the camera's and insurance are for.

[fightingquaker13]

Actually, that is why I do favor a class (recquired or not). If its like Texas', it will stress two things. How to deescalate, and what the law is. Owning a gun doesn't mean you know the law. Yes, you should be allowed to carry without a class, but you're an idiot if you do so without knowing whats ok and not ok. I don't subscribe to all the views you've laid out here TAB, but on this I do. Knowing the law, and knowing when and how to walk away are just a important as gun handling skills.
FQ13

[Ichiban]

Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility, yet IME, most people that have a CCW have no idea what that responsibility is.

Sadly, the same can be said about just about every aspect of everyday life - from having kids to driving a car.  So, without any data, let me guess that more people (proportionately) are killed by bad driving habits (theirs and others) than by CCWers that respond inappropriately to a situation.

On my home planet there are stringent training requirements before someone can CCW.  Damn near anyone can own guns and use them to hunt, shot at the range, plink out in the country, etc.  But if you are going out in the general public with it and possibly put other peoples lives at risk, you need to have training and to have shown some level of proficiency with it.  The same is true of driving or having kids.  I wish I could spend more time there rather than on this planet.

[Sponsor]

[TAB]

We have had this debate before about intervening in a bank robbery. If they shoot the clerk, or another customer they're going down, otherwise, that's what the camera's and insurance are for.

yep, but you would be amazed at how many people don't know that or think having a gun on makes them have "super powers"

[JC5123]

yep, but you would be amazed at how many people don't know that or think having a gun on makes them have "super powers"

I have to disagree. Maybe a few pinheads that really shouldn't be carrying. (We all know at least one) But I think that the responsibility, and the potential liability makes people with a CCW hyper aware of their actions. I think that is why NO SHOTS were fired by any of the SEVERAL CCW holders at the Tucson shooting. They all knew the potential consequences of a stray round and chose to act without drawing their weapon. The point being that they acted. Unlike the hundreds of other sheep that were there.

Maybe you're right Tab, these people did exhibit "super powers" but they didn't need a gun to do it.

[TAB]

My exp is for every 1 ccw holder that "gets it" and gets training/practice there are atleast 25 that don't.

I'd bet if we really looked into it that number would be closer to 1 in a hundred.


Most of the so called heros, that have done simlar things( not always stoping a man with a gun) will tell you that if they had to think about it, they would not have done it.

[JC5123]

My exp is for every 1 ccw holder that "gets it" and gets training/practice there are atleast 25 that don't.

I'd bet if we really looked into it that number would be closer to 1 in a hundred.


Most of the so called heros, that have done simlar things( not always stoping a man with a gun) will tell you that if they had to think about it, they would not have done it.

I would venture a guess that your experience has more to do with where you live than the real truth to the numbers.

Then again I live in a place where guns are a way of life. We can drive for 200 miles and see NOTHING. No town, no gas station, no HELP. And don't count on your cell phone either. Once you get away from the cities you might get service, you might not. People here get it, because they have to. Which may have something to do with the fact that our state is still running surpluses in the budget. 

[TAB]

I've spent more of my adult life traveling the US working then I have here.


most of the "gung hoe" types were in the DFW area btw.  also the place with the most courpt building inspectors too.( trust me , thats really saying something)  atleast in reguards to what we were doing.  which was industrial coatings.  after the 5 monts I spent in the SFW area, it left a real bad tase in my mouth from texas.  Lets just say, the second we were out of texas, the owner and myself made a bunch of calls to several diffrent federal agencys.  intrestingly enough a short while after there were several high profile arests made.  You might have read about them... illegal dumping, cutting corners blah blah blah...

Houston was a little better, but not much.

over all, the nicest people were in the south( true south, not the boarder areas)  the rudest was the upper eastern coast.  the most racist was the midwest.  Test best "american dinner" food was the northwest.