Author Topic: Any body else following this  (Read 2585 times)

tombogan03884

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Any body else following this
« on: February 07, 2011, 10:39:25 AM »
This story seems to be lost in the furor over Egypt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110207/wl_nm/us_thailand_cambodia

By Prapan Chankaew Prapan Chankaew – 2 hrs 23 mins ago

PHUM SARON, Thailand (Reuters) – Thai and Cambodian troops clashed for a fourth straight day on Monday over a disputed border area surrounding a 900-year-old mountaintop temple, deepening political uncertainty in Bangkok and prompting Cambodia to urge U.N. intervention.

Several hours of shelling and machine gun fire subsided at around 11 a.m. (11 p.m. EST on Sunday), creating an uneasy peace in the 4.6-sq-km (two-sq-mile) contested area around the Preah Vihear temple claimed by both Southeast Asian neighbors.

Cambodia's government said Monday's fighting had killed five people and wounded 45 others on its side of the border. It did not specify whether the casualties were troops or civilians.

Both sides blame the other for sparking clashes that have killed at least two Thais and eight Cambodians since Friday and unleashed nationalist passions in Bangkok, energizing "yellowshirt" protesters demanding Thailand's government step down.

Reasons behind the fighting remain murky. Some analysts reckon hawkish Thai generals and nationalist allies may be trying to topple Thailand's government or even create a pretext to stage another coup and cancel elections expected this year.

Others say it may be a simple breakdown in communication channels at a time of strained relations over Cambodia's flying of a national flag in the disputed area and laying of a stone tablet inscribed with "This is Cambodia".

In Phum Saron, an evacuated village in Thailand's Si Sa Ket province where Cambodian artillery struck several homes and a school on Sunday, Thai soldiers guarded buildings and said it was unclear if more fighting loomed.

On the Cambodian side of the frontier, pigs and chickens roamed deserted villages. Schools and temples were turned into makeshift refugee centers. Naked children played as people collected firewood or queued for handouts of rice and water.

Several trucks each carrying at least 100 Cambodian infantry soldiers were seen racing toward the conflict zone.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen called on the U.N. Security Council to convene an urgent meeting, accusing Thailand of "repeated acts of aggression" that have killed Cambodians and caused a wing of the temple to collapse.

In a speech in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh, Hun Sen directly addressed his Thai counterpart.

"We will go to the U.N. Security Council whether you like it or not," he said during a university graduation ceremony, calling on the United Nations to deploy peacekeeping troops to the area. "The armed clash is threatening regional security."

"WELL-PLANNED" ATTACKS

Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva wrote to the Security Council, saying Cambodia was trying to internationalize a bilateral issue, accusing its troops of launching attacks that were "pre-mediated and well-planned in advance".

Thai troops "had no choice but to exercise the inherent right of self defense," Abhisit said.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a statement he was "deeply concerned" and urged both sides to cease fire and find a "lasting solution" to the dispute, echoing a similar statement from Washington over the weekend.

The Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) dispatched Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa to Cambodia on Monday in a bid to defuse the crisis. He was scheduled to meet with Thai government officials in Bangkok on Tuesday.

Natalegawa called for dialogue and for both sides to honor a ceasefire agreed on Friday to protect ASEAN's integrity ahead of the formation of its European Union-style community.

"On the eve of an ASEAN community in 2015, guns must be silent in Southeast Asia," he told reporters in Phnom Penh.

The dispute threatens to worsen hostility between Thai political factions ahead of the expected election this year.

Thailand's police chief said he would seek cabinet approval on Tuesday to impose the Internal Security Act to enable security forces to stop protesters from occupying government buildings in Bangkok in a planned demonstration on Friday.

The "yellow shirts", whose crippling rallies helped to bring Abhisit to power, have turned against him in recent weeks, calling for him to take a tougher line against Cambodia.

In 2008, they occupied state offices for three months and blockaded Bangkok's main airport until a court expelled a government allied with former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a step that paved the way for Abhisit to take power.

"I don't think this will look good for Abhisit's government, especially as we are heading toward elections," said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore.

The clashes pushed down shares in Thai firms with businesses in Cambodia, led by a 1.8 percent loss in satellite firm Thaicom, with its telecom service in Cambodia contributing 10 percent of revenue.

The temple, known as Preah Vihear, or "Mountain of the Sacred Temple", in Cambodia and Khao Phra Viharn in Thailand, sits on a triangular plateau that forms a natural border.

Both sides have been locked in a standoff since July 2008, when Preah Vihear was granted UNESCO World Heritage status, which Thailand opposed on grounds that territory around the temple had never been demarcated.

The International Court of Justice in 1962 awarded the temple to Cambodia, which uses a century-old French map as the basis for its territorial claims, but the ruling failed to determine ownership of the scrub next to it.

(Additional reporting by Prak Chan Thul and Jared Ferrie in Phnom Penh, Damir Sagolj in Anglong Veng and Pracha Hariraksapitak in Bangkok; Writing by Jason Szep; Editing by Martin Petty and Daniel Magnowski)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110207/wl_time/08599204671500

By ROBERT HORN / BANGKOK Robert Horn / Bangkok – 38 mins ago

By the time the armies of Thailand and Cambodia end their battle for Preah Vihear, an 11th-century temple on the border between the two countries, there may be nothing left to fight over.

On Feb. 7, for the fourth day running, fighting broke out at the disputed site, causing extensive damage. At least five people, including two Thai soldiers, were killed in addition to Thai villagers. On the Thai side, 34 have been injured including 10 Thai soldiers and Thai homes and schools have been burned to the ground. Cambodia claims the damage was caused by Thai shells. The Thais counter that Cambodia shot first. "We have to defend ourselves," said Panitan Wattanayagorn, a Thai government spokesmen. Both sides have asked the United Nations Security Council to step in. (See pictures of the dispute.)

This is the latest volley in a long-standing dispute between these southeast Asian neighbors. The temple sits on a cliff that would appear to be Thai soil, but the International Court of Justice awarded the temple to Cambodia in 1962 based on a French colonial-era map. Successive Thai governments have respected the court's decision - to the dismay of some Thai nationalists - but a 4.6-square-kilometer area around the temple was not ruled upon, and demarcation negotiations have been stalled. In 2008, the Thai government supported a proposal that would have listed Cambodia as the sole owner of the temple, infuriating Thai nationalists. The current government wants joint management via UNESCO but the plan has not been approved yet.

It's hard to say what, exactly, sparked this latest round of violence - the triggers seem as murky as the conflicting territorial claims. Some observers, including many Cambodians, believe Thailand attacked to relieve pressure from a radical nationalist group called the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), or the 'Yellow Shirts.' Current Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya is a former member of the PAD and has been criticized for failing to secure the release of two colleagues arrested by Cambodia at the disputed border in December. For weeks now, his former comrades have been protesting in Bangkok, espousing hate speech against Cambodians, and issuing a set of extremist demands which include Thailand boycotting the UNESCO World Heritage Committee and using military force to evict Cambodian villagers from the disputed border area. (See more on the battle for the Preah Vihear temple.)

Thailand denies that either the government or the military acted to appease the PAD. "We wouldn't create another major problem just to satisfy one protest group," said Panitan, the spokespman. In any event, it hasn't appeased the Yellow Shirts: Though they once supported of the current government, they are now calling on the Thai prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to resign. And Thai Army Chief Gen. Prayuth Chanocha appeared irritated with the Yellow Shirts during a press conference over the weekend, suggesting that if Yellow Shirt leaders wanted the army to use force so badly, they should come and serve on the front lines. (Comment on this story.)

Thai officials say Cambodia is to blame. They officials speculate that Cambodia's prime minister, Hun Sen, may be angling for U.N. and international sympathy and support ahead of a UNESCO World Heritage Committee meeting scheduled for June in Bahrain that will consider who should manage the temple. That's not so far-fetched: Hun Sen's government has whipped up anti-Thai sentiment and violence in the past for domestic purposes. In 2003, for instance, a false report spread that a Thai actress had claimed Cambodia's famed ancient temples of Angkor were actually built by Thais. Anti-Thai riots erupted in the Cambodian capital, and the Thai military was forced to mount a commando-style evacuation of its citizens. (See pictures of the rise and fall of the Khmer Rouge.)

It isn't clear, yet, whether the U.N. Security Council will take up the conflict, and if so, how quickly. Ultimately, Panitan said, the dispute will have to be settled bilaterally, as is the diplomatic norm. But judging from the snail's pace of negotiations and the speed with which armed conflict is escalating, one can only wonder if the temple itself can survive the maelstrom.

twyacht

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 05:16:54 PM »
Caught a brief news report of this on the radio, ...

"The U.N. issued a strong statement for both sides to show restraint."

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a statement he was "deeply concerned" and urged both sides to cease fire and find a "lasting solution" to the dispute, echoing a similar statement from Washington over the weekend.

See? That always works, problem solved... :P




Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."
Col. Jeff Cooper.

crusader rabbit

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 09:37:50 PM »
Bunny and I were teaching English to young Thai minds-of-mush in most of 2008, and this was going on then, too. 

We took a side trip into Cambodia, crossing over the Thai/Cambodia border, in order to see the fabulous ruins at Angkor Wat.  Neither the Thais nor the Cambodians seemed to have any concern about this squabble, since it was some distance away.

These little mini-wars are fairly continual in nature and don't start upsetting people until/unless one of the players makes the mistake of forming an invasion force.  As long as it is in a disputed area--one claimed by both Thai and Cambodian governments--it is simply a strange form of entertainment and nationalistic pride.

It's important to recognize that there are a number of cultures in the area--Cambodian, Vietnamese, Hmong, Thai, Malaysian and others--who have been at war with each other in one sense or another for thousands of years.  And these cultures are or have been supported or taken over by various other cultures like Chinese, Japanese, even Indian at various times in their histories.  The Thais are currently  at war within Thailand in their southern area.  There, a vocal mooslim minority want to secede from the rest of Thailand and form their own sharia community.  Meanwhile, in and around Bangkok, you have the red shirts fighting against the yellow shirts for control of the government--and they're all from the same background.  They are just pi$$ed because each party thinks the other party has an unfair advantage that they want for themselves.

Stay tuned.  There's bound to be more.

Crusader
“I’ve lived the literal meaning of the ‘land of the free’ and ‘home of the brave.’ It’s not corny for me. I feel it in my heart. I feel it in my chest. Even at a ball game, when someone talks during the anthem or doesn’t take off his hat, it pisses me off. I’m not one to be quiet about it, either.”  Chris Kyle

tombogan03884

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 10:52:27 AM »
So, basicly , a fun time was had by all ?  ;D

Ichiban

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 11:30:49 AM »
So, basicly , a fun time was had by all ?  ;D

Only if the UN gets involved.  If so, I bet they keep their record (and reputation) intact.

Sponsor

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:57:52 AM »

tombogan03884

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 06:29:10 PM »
Border clashes, the Thia's and Cambodians seem to like them, China goes back and forth between Russia and Vietnam, and the Koreans have them instead of family reunions.
Maybe we should try one with our Mexican neighbors ?
They probably feel ignored after 163 years.

crusader rabbit

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2011, 07:41:44 AM »
So, basicly , a fun time was had by all ?  ;D

Yeah, Tom.  That's the essence of it.  The UN doesn't seem to want to get involved (maybe they remember our Vietnam fiasco) and seems to prefer to let the litigants work it out themselves.

When we were there in Thailand, the redshirts and the yellow shirts were having a go at each other--so much so that they  managed to shut down the international airport in Bangkok.  Bunny had made a trip down to Bangladesh to work with an orphanage, and we were not at all certain she could fly back into Bangkok.  As it turned out, they managed to "free" the airport about 5 days before she was scheduled to arrive.

If you want to see what she was doing in Bangladesh, go to www.charfassonchildrensfund.org and have a look.
“I’ve lived the literal meaning of the ‘land of the free’ and ‘home of the brave.’ It’s not corny for me. I feel it in my heart. I feel it in my chest. Even at a ball game, when someone talks during the anthem or doesn’t take off his hat, it pisses me off. I’m not one to be quiet about it, either.”  Chris Kyle

tombogan03884

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Re: Any body else following this
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 10:29:46 AM »
From the link.

"The climatic difficulties along Bangladesh’s southern coastline make its nine coastal districts the poorest and least developed of the entire country,"

Beyond saying it sounds kind of like La. I won't make any other wise azz comments as it seems like a very worthy cause.

 

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