Survival rifle...

[garand4life]

Okay... I only put this out there because my local shop put an M1A Socom .308 in my hands as I was visiting my to be Ruger SR556. It was a 16" Socom with a tritium front sight and integral mounting rail. Absolute beauty and great feel. Now the reason I pose this poll is because if I were to buy one I think I would lean to the 556 due to cost of ammo and the more generalized nature of the platform. Being able to serve as a home defense, target/competition rifle and the like. I don't see it being likely a .308 would serve well inside of the 20 yard mark. Am I wrong. The price difference between the 2 is about $400 and I really like the M1 operating system as a whole but I feel more familiar with the AR honestly.
I am planning on going back home to NM in the next month or so and it brought a thought to my mind, with all the instability near where I'm going (near the southern border) the .308 seems to provide more flexibility at range. I don't know, would I be getting a little over my head by going M1A?  Thoughts...

So as the poll says, if you had to pick one of the two to serve as a general multipurpose rifle which way do you go and why?

[Timothy]

G4L..

Eric Lund, USSA-1, some time back gave a pretty good review of the SOCOM and I think that his gripe was the blinding flash of such a short barrel IIRC.  Check the Tactical Rifle threads.

Short of that, I don't know nothing...

From Eric....

"If you want one fun the sheer fun of it then have at it; they are fun to shoot.

If you are looking for a serious social rifle, then I would look elsewhere.

I want to preface my comments by saying that what follows is not an indictment of Springfield Armory or the quality of their products.  The SOCOM line is a very fine product, but I think SA is doing quite a disservice when they target the LE/ Home defense market with this particular product.  I think somebody at SA is attempting to capitalize on the M1A's reputation and they didn't quite think through the needs of the end user for their target market.

Allow me a quick digression on the SOCOM design.  The significance of this point will be illuminated later.  In order for SA to shorten the M1A's barrel from 18" to 16" required a slight redesign of the gas system.  A critical feature of any gas operated design is gas dwell time.  In order for a gas system to operate reliably, there has to be a "minimum barrel length" after the gas port in the barrel for the venting gas to enter the gas system with enough pressure to cycle the action.  There are several factors at work here, barrel length, gas port size, powder burn rate, etc.  Generally, 4"-6" of additional barrel length past the gas port is a good standard.  When you start reducing the barrel length, you start reducing the gas dwell time, or the amount of time the gas system will be pressurized before the bullet exits the barrel and your gas pressure drops off significantly and quite rapidly.  There are two primary ways to offset this problem.  The easiest way is to increase the size of the gas port, which allows a larger volume of gas to enter the system quicker to run the system.  The problem with this is that you can only go so big.  If you still need some gas dwell time to pressurize the system before it will operate, then the second way you can solve this problem is with a device called a gas booster.  This device provides an area for expanding gases to collect with only a small opening to vent, creating an increase in back pressure.  This back pressure increase provides additional gas and dwell time for short barrel setups, allowing them to operate more reliably.  Examples of this are the Russian AK-74 "Krinkov's" with their booster/flash suppressor setups and the Noveske flaming pig brakes for the short barreled AR's.

Understanding this, SA needed to redesign their gas system on the SOCOM's to work with a 16" barrel.  If you notice where the gas block is on the SOCOM, you'll notice about 1"-2" of barrel after the gas block (if that!)  SA needed a way to increase the gas/back pressure to make the SOCOM work with such a short barrel.  So they used a compensator/booster design.  This compensator provided an area for gas to collect, increasing backpressure, to work the system.  Additionally, they vented the gas in a vertical manner to drive the muzzle down, assisting with the controlablity of the rifle.  And it works great!  It seemed to be a win/win all around.  There was just one problem.  SA choose to market this rifle to primarily LE/MIL units.  Of course they are also for the civilian market, but every advertisement I've seen shows some high speed SWAT team using it on a raid or some MIL guy dragging it through the mud.

Here's my issue with it.  Have you ever fired a 308 round from a short 16" barrel?  If you haven't then your missing out on some pretty impressive fireworks, not to mention quite a muzzle blast.  Now try it with a compensator that increases muzzle blast and flash upwards in your face.  You get an even bigger show.  Now try all this at night or in a low-light environment.  I am not exaggerating when I say, "Nuke mushroom cloud!"  Considering that over 85% of all LE shootings are in a dark/low-light environment, you've got one shot before you see the "Nuke cloud" and your vision is completely destroyed.  I don't mean the occasional white dots in the eye, I mean you are done!  Your ride is over, get in the back of the line you want another turn.

On one occasion, I attempted to follow a student through a shoot house during the low-light portion of our rifle course.  After the first shot, I couldn't see him.  I was completely blind.  I had to shine my flashlight at his feet to follow him around the house.  I didn't see anything he did and I the only piece of advice I could give him was to consider another rifle.  At the end of the run he only hit 3 of 8 targets and completely missed 2 of them because he couldn't see them.  It was most unimpressive to say the least.

I really don't know what SA was thinking when they targeted the LE market for this setup.  Until they can redesign the system to operate using a good flash suppressor, this particular rifle is completely unsuitable for LE or self defensive use if there is any chance it will get used in a low-light or reduced light environment.  In its current form, I cannot recommend the SOCOM line for any serious social work, but it is fun to shoot in the daytime.

USSA-1"

[BAC]

Would the Scout Squad version of the M1A have the same problems?  It's got an 18" barrel and costs a couple hundred dollars less (I think) than the SOCOM.  Might be worth checking out.

[r_w]

Tough call. 

18" barrel and updated compensator (side firing to reduce flash to operator) M1a will solve anything, including most 4 legged problems you could face.

5.56 does allow you to carry 2x the ammo and is a lot faster in an urban setting or facing overwhelming odds.

[twyacht]

Not the Sig? Either way, the SOCOM is bad ass. "Bring Enough Gun" is the Springfield slogan for the SOCOM. and it certainly is that.

For HD, if your considering a .308, you need to move...   Follow up shots will be moot with a .308 at SD distances.

But your right a 5.56 fits more practicality for what you describe.

Although the M1A would certainly cover ALL bases....out to 500+ yds...if needed. For moving back to NM, however, .308 kinda creates a bigger is better mindset.

[Sponsor]

[billt]

This is my Springfield SOCOM 16, and I have to say this guy is overstating things quite a bit! It's a .308 for God's sake, not a .338 Weatherby Magnum. The blast is a little more than from my National Match but it's not an earthquake. The gas system works perfectly, and the gun is inherently accurate, not to mention a ton of fun! The Springfield SOCOM 16, and others like it do what they were built to do. Yes, they are a bit louder and have more recoil, but let's face it not everything was intended to be shot like a .223 with a suppressor.   Bill T.

[garand4life]

I'm not moving back. Only a vacation for a week or 2. But it's any area where I know bad things can and have happened. And considering the craziness involving the cartels and such. I really want to know I have what I need no matter what happens.

[fightingquaker13]

It boils down to this. The M1A is a battle rifle, the AR is an "assualt rifle" (screw the PC BS, you all know what I mean). Two different jobs. In the SOCOM configuration there is nothing the AR can do that that .308 can't. It comes down to weight, penetration, ammo weight, and recoil (though I'm with Bill on it not being a big deal) and mag price. The M1A is just more gun period. Question is, do you want that? If could have only one rifle, I'd take the Socom in a heartbeat as it will do everything from hunting to defense and maybe reach out and touch someone.  Still, I can have a few rifles. That being said, in any normal SD situation? I'l probably use a Glock or my 12 gauge. If I need a rifle? The AR would probably be a better choice. Still, if I need the .308 the .556 won't suffice, and I can't slap a 5 round mag in it and take it hunting. I gues if you've got a good  hunting rifle buy the AR. If not, I'd get the SOCOM. FWIW.
FQ13

[tombogan03884]

FQ, you really are a dope.
a SOCOM 16 is a 308 semi auto carbine, while the AR G4L is talking about is a .223 semi auto carbine.
Assault rifles are select fire, it's like Mags and clips or stupid and ignorant, only ignorant people use them interchangeably.

[fightingquaker13]

FQ, you really are a dope.
a SOCOM 16 is a 308 semi auto carbine, while the AR G4L is talking about is a .223 semi auto carbine.
Assault rifles are select fire, it's like Mags and clips or stupid and ignorant, only ignorant people use them interchangeably.

That would be the PC BS I was referring to. Think only the left can come up with conversation stopping, debate deadening "words that cannot be said"? Read your post. I'm going to be honest an ASSAULT RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will henceforth be defined for purposes of answering the OP's question as a full OR semi-auto weapon that has a high mag capacity, low recoil, an intermediate cartridge, and is effective at intermediate ranges (in short, guns we all like). Sort of like the Wermacht envisiond it, but then, they never did worry about PC did they? Point being Tom, anyone reading this board knows what I'm talking about. The question is do you want a battle rifle chopped to carbine lenghth, or a good assault rifle? Screw PC, its a good question. Me, I'd go with the battle carbine if I was going to have to hunt with it, otherwise, buy the AR.
FQ13