Discovery ready to fly

[billt]

Playing libertarian devils advocate - did NASA do anything that private industry couldn't do cheaper?

The best private industry could do thus far in space exploration was win the Anzini X Prize. Burt Rutan captured it by flying straight up to 62+ miles, then straight back down. He would not have even been able to achieve that if it weren't for the $10 MILLION dollar prize to help offset some of the insane costs. It's just too expensive to privately fund with no return on your money. Even Virgin Galactic has to charge $250,000.00 per sub orbital ride. Plus it's dangerous as hell. One accident and it will ground the whole project. Especially if the thing is full of wealthy V.I.P.'s.

This stuff is a lot like wind and solar energy development. It costs too much too advance the technology to expect to get any payoff. Planes like the U-2 and SR-71 never would have flown if the customer didn't have unlimited deep pockets, (the government). That type of technology is too expensive to develop at a profit. If it could be it would have been by now. Super high tech aircraft and spacecraft can only be afforded by big governments. At least thus far.  Bill T.

[jnevis]

Playing libertarian devils advocate - did NASA do anything that private industry couldn't do cheaper?
We got a ton of great tech stuff from the space program, but letting private industry instead of the gubmint do it might have saved us taxpayers a ton of money.

I know that private industy doesn't do anything for free, but you would have the choice of spending your $$ on it or not. Even a great agency like NASA is funded with our money without us having any say in it. (along with a bunch of turd agencies that should be cut off at the knees)

It has nothing to do with having the gov't vice private industry do the work, private industry did the work to begin with.  NASA is just the conduit.  The budget they had never STAYED with NASA, only part of it.  The rest went to Lockheed, Boeing, Grumman, Honeywell, and all the other contractors and sub-contractors that actually BUILT the equipment. NASA is the management that directs the private company what they want built and when.  

The same thing happens in the DoD.  The Navy is given $Xm for a weapons system and asks for business to give them what it costs.  Some of the money is for oversight and compliance but the rest goes to whoever wins the contract.

It boils down to direction.  Kennedy said "We are going to the Moon."  No grey area there.  Now we get "I'd like to, maybe, if we can afford it, possibly, replace XX with something better, but not to many, and it can't cost to much or take to long then I'll cancel it.  Make it Joint so everybody gets a say in what it does but don't make the requirements to hard or make the Services agree to them."

[tombogan03884]

I have to disagree with Kmitch,  Without the initial Govt investment in the Space program for national defense purposes, ( it was after all a spin off of the ballistic missile research and the Air Force's never ending desire to go higher and faster ) there never would have been a space program .
Had there not been a European desire for the natural resources of the America's, (including open land  to resettle some of their excess population )colonization and settlement of the America's would have taken far longer, possibly centuries.
Since the 40's or 50's Science Fiction writers,  (many, such as Asimov, and  Benford , being serious scientists in their day jobs ) have been theorizing on the exploitation of space as a future source of many raw materials, particularly metals .
They have also been thinking about ways to lower the per pound cost of launches. Before many of the needed technologies did not exist, some of the technologies we needed to invent the technologies we needed did not exist, (such as computers, man made materials and reliable wireless communications ).
Look at Virgin, or Rutan's Space Ship One. If you can convince industry that they can substantially increase profits, whether through tourism, or mining or whatever. They WILL find a way to do it.
It would not surprise me if the first colony on Mars were financed by Bally's of Lunar.
It seems that none of us are opposed to the idea, we're just debating where the financing should come from.

[Timothy]

Allan Shepherd  grew up not THAT far from where I lived, (It's a small state, nothing is THAT far away    )

There are at least 3 technologies we need to advance before Mars is truly practical, Less expensive launch technology,better propulsion for higher speed of transit, and light speed or better communication.

Roger B Chaffee was from Grand Rapids, my home town...the museum is named after him...

I still don't get the Mars thing though.  The atmosphere won't support human beings in any way shape or form.  Sure, technology will benefit in may ways but at 95% Carbon dioxide, there is no way to populate that planet, nor any other in our solar system.

The cool factor is one thing, the advances in technology and medicine are all viable arguments.

I really don't think I'll see another huge technical advancement in my lifetime.  I'd like to, but I don't see it coming out of todays graduates.

[Timothy]

Trivia...

Why was Allan Shepherd the first man in space?

[Sponsor]

[tombogan03884]

Tim, Mars is a stepping stone. It is the nearest actual "Planet". Getting to Mars will be the modern equivalent of Bleriot Flying across the English channel. The real discoveries  are not  likely until we can leave our own solar system. At the current level of technology just the travel time would take many generations.

Trivia...

Why was Allan Shepherd the first man in space?

He got along good with the monkey ?   

[Timothy]

Tim, Mars is a stepping stone. It is the nearest actual "Planet". Getting to Mars will be the modern equivalent of Bleriot Flying across the English channel. The real discoveries  are not  likely until we can leave our own solar system. At the current level of technology just the travel time would take many generations.

He got along good with the monkey ?   

Yea, I know the solar system, via the RB Chaffee "Planetarium" in GR... and I get all that. 

Point being, I don't think we need to leave this particular rock aka "the third rock from the Sun!"... 

There are plenty of things that the aeronautical boys from NASA can do for private industry.  They have a product, their minds and experience.  What they need is a marketing department.

Trivia....what did Shepherd have in common with the Kennedy?  One answer leads to the other...

[Timothy]

Trivia...

Why was Allan Shepherd the first man in space?

Nobody?  Nothing?

Come boys and girls!  Free chips and salsa in the corner and use of the remote on the big screen for thirty seconds!

[GASPASSERDELUXE]

Nobody?  Nothing?

Come boys and girls!  Free chips and salsa in the corner and use of the remote on the big screen for thirty seconds!

Because he was in the front?

[Timothy]

JFK was a Naval officer as was Allan Shepherd.  Kennedy wanted his first in space to be a Navy man and Shepherd would have been the first guy there but had to settle for being the first American in space as the Soviets beat us by a couple of weeks.

Yuri Gurgarin went up on April 12, 1961 and Shepherd on May 5th....